). Talking to others about Peak Oil it seems that hardly anyone takes it seriously. What will it take to get peoples heads out of the sand and think and act together? 
Heads in the sand !!
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Heads in the sand !!
I've only been aware of Peak Oil theory for about a month whilst trawling the net I stumbled across it. I have always been amazed at how we in the west expect every aspect of life to get better and give us more. By that I mean material wealth, more money, a bigger house, better car, more holidays, more gadgets etc. I obvously have enjoyed all of these things myself but have wondered how much more is there for everyone and where does it stop? In Y2K in the UK petrol/diesel prices shot up to an unprecedented £1 per litre, causing refinery blockades and fuel stations to run out. This lasted about a week and all went back to normal, prices dropped slightly but have risen again and are around £120 a litre now. But still everyone uses cars as much as ever, with most 4, 5, 6 or 7 seaters that I see very day with only 1 person in the car. I decided to do my bit and reduce my fuel costs by changing my car for a diesel smart car (83mpg, so they tell me ). Talking to others about Peak Oil it seems that hardly anyone takes it seriously. What will it take to get peoples heads out of the sand and think and act together?
). Talking to others about Peak Oil it seems that hardly anyone takes it seriously. What will it take to get peoples heads out of the sand and think and act together? -
RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
Hello pamey. Do take a look 'round all the other stuff in this forum if you haven't done already, I've been here for ages and I'm still coming across stuff I didn't know.
Such as the connection with food, followed by lots of tips about growing it. Lots of stuff about home insulation, and then PO-proof energy such as woodburners (well I did know that bit but not all the gory details about how to plumb one in for hot water as well as room heat. Yes it's all here!).
I think a lot of us have come to the conclusion that spreading-the-word by the usual means only leads to frustration: my tactic has been to mention particular parts of it to people who I know stand a fighting chance of dealing with that particular aspect, even if they can't be ar$ed with the whole picture. Others have just gone ahead and done their stuff, reckoning that actions speak louder than words.
Such as the connection with food, followed by lots of tips about growing it. Lots of stuff about home insulation, and then PO-proof energy such as woodburners (well I did know that bit but not all the gory details about how to plumb one in for hot water as well as room heat. Yes it's all here!).
I think a lot of us have come to the conclusion that spreading-the-word by the usual means only leads to frustration: my tactic has been to mention particular parts of it to people who I know stand a fighting chance of dealing with that particular aspect, even if they can't be ar$ed with the whole picture. Others have just gone ahead and done their stuff, reckoning that actions speak louder than words.
-
kenneal - lagger
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14290
- Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
- Location: Newbury, Berkshire
- Contact:
Hi! pamey. Most people only react to what they see around them so they won't believe anything is wrong at the moment.
The insidious thing about PO is that it causes a price spike followed by a recession, which causes a price drop, but not to the previous low level, so people think that PO doesn't exist, or will not bother them for a while yet. All the while, we will be approaching a complete collapse, not in oil supply, but, in the economy.
As many have said, "We will never run out of oil" which is true. What we will run out of is affordable oil and affordable will mean a different price in different countries.
The insidious thing about PO is that it causes a price spike followed by a recession, which causes a price drop, but not to the previous low level, so people think that PO doesn't exist, or will not bother them for a while yet. All the while, we will be approaching a complete collapse, not in oil supply, but, in the economy.
As many have said, "We will never run out of oil" which is true. What we will run out of is affordable oil and affordable will mean a different price in different countries.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Hi Pamey,
Yea, I think most of us here know how you feel. One doesn't have to be a tree hugger or radical to see the PO looming on the horizon - one just needs to be reasonably intelligent and a realist. Something that amazingly seems a rare quality in combination with a lot of sheeple.
Talking to people (apart from a select few) often leads to being considered a fruit bat or at the least a wart on the face of humanity. After all, continual growth is so deeply ingrained into our society that most will not see any other option.
So, don't despair, chin up and as Candy says, lots of info here - even better if you are in a position to afford to implement it...but that's another story1
Welcome.
Yea, I think most of us here know how you feel. One doesn't have to be a tree hugger or radical to see the PO looming on the horizon - one just needs to be reasonably intelligent and a realist. Something that amazingly seems a rare quality in combination with a lot of sheeple.
Talking to people (apart from a select few) often leads to being considered a fruit bat or at the least a wart on the face of humanity. After all, continual growth is so deeply ingrained into our society that most will not see any other option.
So, don't despair, chin up and as Candy says, lots of info here - even better if you are in a position to afford to implement it...but that's another story1
Welcome.
)-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14815
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
Welcome pamey.
Apart from your excellent move of changing your vehicle, how are you fixed otherwise?
As maudibe points out, intelligence and realism are a rare combination and if you can grab a little of both it leads to this: whatever the outcome of peak oil (it's not a theory, btw), you can lead an extremely satisfying, cheap and healthy life by assuming that that outcome is going to be negative - though that in itself is not important for our purposes.
By that I mean that even growing a little of your own food is a massive positive step forward; concentrating on reducing your energy demand makes no difference to the world but all the difference in the world to your money requirements and, thirdly, expecting less from the world but more from yourself is character building to say the very least.
To put it more simply still, it makes 110% common sense to (for instance) insulate your house or get a job nearer home - etc etc - no matter what goes on in the outside world.
Apart from your excellent move of changing your vehicle, how are you fixed otherwise?
As maudibe points out, intelligence and realism are a rare combination and if you can grab a little of both it leads to this: whatever the outcome of peak oil (it's not a theory, btw), you can lead an extremely satisfying, cheap and healthy life by assuming that that outcome is going to be negative - though that in itself is not important for our purposes.
By that I mean that even growing a little of your own food is a massive positive step forward; concentrating on reducing your energy demand makes no difference to the world but all the difference in the world to your money requirements and, thirdly, expecting less from the world but more from yourself is character building to say the very least.
To put it more simply still, it makes 110% common sense to (for instance) insulate your house or get a job nearer home - etc etc - no matter what goes on in the outside world.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
We have our own vegetable garden, though it doesn't produce enough to sustain the family with and not buy groceries from the supermarket. I have insulated our house well but am thinking of renewing it with the newer thicker insulation and maybe get our outside walls filled with insulation foam. As to working nearer, it's much easier to say than to do with the current economic constraints where it's a case of going where the work is. But I get the point and am working towards that.
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14815
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
I've found that talking about PO gets people down. Now, when they talk about their future plans, I just nod sympathetically and keep my thoughts to myself. If people don't take it in the first time, it's because some defence mechanism has set in and who am I to say that's not for the best?maudibe wrote: Talking to people (apart from a select few) often leads to being considered a fruit bat or at the least a wart on the face of humanity. After all, continual growth is so deeply ingrained into our society that most will not see any other option.
Also, finding out about PO freaked me out massively for a couple of months. I don't particularly want to be responsible for putting other people through what I went through - even though they'll have to face it eventually.
People will start "getting it" when the downslope starts in earnest, the stock market implodes and food becomes unaffordable for many. That's to say, they'll "get" that something's wrong, but even then, I don't think many people will accept that it's the end of industrial civilisation.
People need hope and where there's ignorance, there's always hope.
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
-
kenneal - lagger
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14290
- Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
- Location: Newbury, Berkshire
- Contact:
Don't renew your loft insulation, ADD to it. The old stuff may be looking tatty and have sunk to half its original thickness but it still works. Putting more on top, though, will make it work better and keep all that nasty dust down so that it doesn't get into your lungs. I recommend Rockwool as it's twice the density of most glass fibre products and doesn't sink. The extra density allows it to resist air movement within its structure better.pamey wrote:I have insulated our house well but am thinking of renewing it with the newer thicker insulation and maybe get our outside walls filled with insulation foam.
You should be looking at a total thickness of 300 to 450mm for ultimate performance but make sure you keep the ventilation going over the insulation. You need the equivalent of a 25mm continuous strip along each side of the eaves and there should be a 50 gap between the roofing felt and the insulation.
Don't think about getting your walls insulated, do it now while there are grants available. In the current economic mess you can't rely on any government expenditure carrying on. 25% of your heat loss goes out of the walls and cavity wall insulation can save up to 80% of that. At a cost of £150 to £200 it's a no brainer. Most companies now use mineral fibre as the old foam is pretty crap.
Insulation makes the house much more comfortable by raising the temperature of the inside surfaces, as well as reducing heat loss, so you can turn the thermostat down by a degree or so for the same comfort level. If you then turn it down another degree or so and put a jumper on, you will save even more.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
The money doesn't come from the government ken it comes from the energy suppliers i.e. we all pay for it with our energy bills. As it stands though its only going on till 2012 there was a year extension before the election and the new government haven't said anything about it carrying on after that (this is what I do in work). We're actually starting to run out of (easy) houses to insulate i.e. starting to move on to the solid walls.. I think this has more to do with it than money actually.Don't think about getting your walls insulated, do it now while there are grants available. In the current economic mess you can't rely on any government expenditure carrying on
But yes your advice stands DO IT NOW and do it before the winter when it gets really busy you won't be waiting as long.