Gun training

Muadib · Post by **Muadib** » 26 Sep 2010, 16:51

From an ecological and resource depletion perspective I can't say I disagree.

However, considering the millions of cars on the road, the thousands that are around us every day, I wouldn't ban them because there are a few idiot drivers.

Of the millions of guns in our country, a few thousand are used by criminals to commit crimes. Of those few thousand guns in the hands of criminals, how many actually are used to commit murder. 144 last year. Of those murders only a few were legally registered guns in the hands of their owners.

To put it in perspective, there were 523 murders in the same time period.

Motor vehicle deaths? Over 3000 and 1200 of them were DUI. There is a far larger problem than guns in this country.

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 26 Sep 2010, 16:52

woodpecker wrote:Yup, it's a proper gun club, and we get training in a range of guns, plus we don't have to buy our own for training.

Thanks for the info about the PSA. I hadn't heard of them.

no problem, they have a website, but not too much info for non-members

http://www.ukpsa.co.uk/

frank_begbie · Post by **frank_begbie** » 26 Sep 2010, 18:09

Can you imagine what its going to be like in the USA when the SHTF?

If you own one you'll use it.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 26 Sep 2010, 20:45

Guns in themselves aren't the problem its the attitude you have to guns and the values in the broader society, yup America will go crazy especially in the city's .
A country like Switzerland or even the 1940s UK could be heavily armed without much trouble because you had values in the society .

Modern day Britain would most likely go crazy if well armed, but thats because we live in a pretty rubbish immature society compared even to our pretty recent past .

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 27 Sep 2010, 17:53

I have been planning to join my local gun club for a while now (on my to do list) but tbh, it does seem rather far fetched and I have put it off.

I don't feel very comfortable shooting, but I feel it could be a useful thing to know in the future. At the same time, I can't imagine a situation where I would go around shooting people, seems a bit too Hollywood tbh.

One day I will get around to doing it

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 30 Sep 2010, 13:02

When someone shows me how to talk a pigeon out of the air I'll trade my shotgun for a megaphone. Until then I'll carry on enjoying fresh meat, free from growth hormones, anti-biotics and preservatives.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 30 Sep 2010, 16:40

Watch at least some of these and tell me how safe we are, and please would someone explain to me why the jews were safer being unarmed and trusting in their govt or the Armenians .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOMsPYu8 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFN0S_BL ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrhaL_Fm ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kciSGJs4 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP-j4tm1 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEXPFwX2 ... re=related

http://www.2ndamendmenttv.com/videos/hi ... rland.html

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 30 Sep 2010, 16:52

Lord Beria3 wrote: I don't feel very comfortable shooting, but I feel it could be a useful thing to know in the future. At the same time, I can't imagine a situation where I would go around shooting people, seems a bit too Hollywood tbh.

Nobody is talking about going around shooting people.

I think people are saying that it might be useful to "catch" meat/food. I am sure it is only in the worst case scenario that anybody would think of using a firearm for any other purpose and even then it would only be a case of self defense in an extreme situation.

Unfortunately there are times when extreme situations can occur.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 30 Sep 2010, 17:51

snow hope wrote:
Lord Beria3 wrote: I don't feel very comfortable shooting, but I feel it could be a useful thing to know in the future. At the same time, I can't imagine a situation where I would go around shooting people, seems a bit too Hollywood tbh.
Nobody is talking about going around shooting people.

I think people are saying that it might be useful to "catch" meat/food. I am sure it is only in the worst case scenario that anybody would think of using a firearm for any other purpose and even then it would only be a case of self defense in an extreme situation.

Unfortunately there are times when extreme situations can occur.

Dunno, sadly I think there are plenty of people who would relish the opportunity to kill another human being in cold blood, if they could get away with it.

It's not coincidental that violent video games are so popular. Civilisations in the ascendancy control and channel violent impulses; civilisations in decline tend to encourage them.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 30 Sep 2010, 18:26

Muadib wrote:There is nothing wrong with law abiding citizens owning guns.

"When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

People murder innocents every day. In fact, in countries where gun control is the heaviest, violent crime is on the rise.

I have a huge gun collection comprising pistols, shotguns, hunting rifles and assault rifles.. I hunt, compete, collect and train. I am a range officer and a pistol safety and marksmanship instructor. We have never, ever had a gun related injury in the 50 years of operating our range. We have also never had a member go "rogue" and go on a killing spree.

Mentally damaged individuals sometimes will snap. Whether they are gun owners or not. If they decide to kill, they will use anything they can to accomplish their goal. Cars, bats, poison, knives, tools, explosives... anything. I recently read an article where a man in China went on a rampage with his car and killed 17 people. Want to start banning cars?

Ridiculous.

Daft argument. As weapons, guns are far more deadly than knives or, to use your example, cars. Which army would you back: one armed with guns, or with knives?

Your argument seems to be that the means always matches the motivation, which is bollocks. If violent crime is rising faster in societies with gun control, that may just mean that violent crime has peaked in countries that don't have it (although I doubt it).

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 30 Sep 2010, 18:58

In the last few years you have had lots of videos surfacing of soldiers driving over cars for fun in tanks, or shooting people for fun, or throwing puppy's to their death for fun .

You have had our pals the Americans saying officially that they can crush the balls of children in front of their parents to get information out of suspects, later it came out they had been doing that sort of thing .

They still wont show the worst photos of gang raping women and worse in abu ghraib.

Power corrupts Im not quite sure why but we dont seem to understand that in the uk, although if you know anything about history its pretty clear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZmUv18a ... re=related

British special forces being taught the same techniques as used at abu ghraib

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 30 Sep 2010, 21:25

jonny2mad wrote:Watch at least some of these and tell me how safe we are, and please would someone explain to me why the jews were safer being unarmed and trusting in their govt or the Armenians .

That's rather a spurious argument. If I had a gun I still wouldn't be a match for 3 or 4 armed police. The Jews have genereally been a peaceful people who despise physical violence. And even accepting the argument that having a gun allows you to defend yourself, there's the converse argument that having guns allows other people to attack you.

The simple fact is that, except in abnormally conformist countries like Switzerland, more guns means more violence. Look at South Africa: a rich minority, an impoverished minority (who, incidentally, have got much poorer since the end of apartheid, thanks to very harsh EMF loan conditions), a country awash with guns - and a murder rate that's through the roof. I don't fancy living in such a country, although it may well happen anyway if government collapses and the gun market becomes a free-for-all. Of course in such an environment you'll need a gun, but that doesn't mean it will be a nice place to live.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 30 Sep 2010, 21:43

There have been one or two posts on this thread that have become close to invoking Godwin's Law and it's easy to trade examples and counter examples of how gun preserve and destroy peace.

But fundamentally, ownership of a gun, other than strictly for hunting food, is an admission that one might, just might, be prepared to kill. This is, of course, contrary to one of the ten commandmants that all members of the Abrahamic faiths of Judaism, Christianity and Islam along with most other religions, adhere to, as well as atheists like me.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 30 Sep 2010, 21:55

Ludwig wrote:
jonny2mad wrote:Watch at least some of these and tell me how safe we are, and please would someone explain to me why the jews were safer being unarmed and trusting in their govt or the Armenians .

That's rather a spurious argument. If I had a gun I still wouldn't be a match for 3 or 4 armed police. The Jews have genereally been a peaceful people who despise physical violence. And even accepting the argument that having a gun allows you to defend yourself, there's the converse argument that having guns allows other people to attack you.

The simple fact is that, except in abnormally conformist countries like Switzerland, more guns means more violence. Look at South Africa: a rich minority, an impoverished minority (who, incidentally, have got much poorer since the end of apartheid, thanks to very harsh EMF loan conditions), a country awash with guns - and a murder rate that's through the roof. I don't fancy living in such a country, although it may well happen anyway if government collapses and the gun market becomes a free-for-all. Of course in such an environment you'll need a gun, but that doesn't mean it will be a nice place to live.

South Africa actually has very tough gun controls, you're not even allowed a .22 air rifle without a licence. The problem is that criminals don't think twice about crossing a border with a pistol. There is a lot of evidence in the USA that when you disarm the public, the criminals kill more people. States with easy gun laws have the lowest crime rate.

Kentucky Fried Panda · Post by **Kentucky Fried Panda** » 01 Oct 2010, 01:41

There are no simple facts beyond that a lot of the talking on this thread about things most of you have no experience of.

Please keep your discussions on topic, that is if you have no knowledge of firearm legislation or training in this country then please butt out.

You can only acquire a FAC with a valid reason, hunting, vermin control or a shooting sport with membership of appropriate club and/or governing body.

Self defence is not a valid reason and as such the best firearms for self defence are handguns, which are section 5 in the UK.