Are we hypocrites?

[snow hope]

Something that has been on my mind for some time. I wonder are some of us on here really hypocrites?

If you had been the Prime Minister, what decision would you have taken to either support GW Bush (or not) with the Iraq invasion to invade the country and impose Western democracy so that we could have access to their oil resources and establish permanent military bases in the region?

Or would you have said NO when GW Bush said "you are either with us or against us", following 911?

Interesting question - I wonder how truthful we can be!

[contadino]

Hand on my heart I can say I'd have told him to F--k right off. The same year, the US government approached me asking me to do some work for them, which would have been very lucrative, but I told them to F--k off and cited their warmongering as the reason.

[RenewableCandy]

I think Blair was blackmailed (I don't mean as an individual, I mean Bush might have been threatening the currency or something). The best thing to do when blackmailed is to go public and tell it straight, and hope like hell that the people respect you for being honest.

Blair still had quite a lot of public goodwill at the time: he might have pulled this one off.

[biffvernon]

If you had been the Prime Minister, what decision would you have taken to either support GW Bush (or not) with the Iraq invasion to invade the country and impose Western democracy so that we could have access to their oil resources and establish permanent military bases in the region?

Or would you have said NO when GW Bush said "you are either with us or against us", following 911?

What a complete no-brainer. Of course I would not have gone along with Bush. It was obvious the guy was a warmongering looney and history has proved the case.

[emordnilap]

If you had been the Prime Minister, what decision would you have taken to either support GW Bush (or not) with the Iraq invasion to invade the country and impose Western democracy so that we could have access to their oil resources and establish permanent military bases in the region?

Or would you have said NO when GW Bush said "you are either with us or against us", following 911?

What a complete no-brainer. Of course I would not have gone along with Bush. It was obvious the guy was a warmongering looney and history has proved the case.

+ 100,000,000

[2 As and a B]

I think Blair was blackmailed (I don't mean as an individual, I mean Bush might have been threatening the currency or something). The best thing to do when blackmailed is to go public and tell it straight, and hope like hell that the people respect you for being honest.

Blair still had quite a lot of public goodwill at the time: he might have pulled this one off.

+1

Shine the light of truth!

Actually, I think Blair should have derobed as well - just to show he wasn't hiding anything, and to lightened the enormity of the announcement.

[Totally_Baffled]

Ditto I wouldn't of gone along with him either.

Saddam should and his sons should of been left in charge, and we should of just done a deal with him on the oil.

Everyones a winner then.

[jonny2mad]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eovei355l4o

yup actually I think I could survive better than most people without oil, and I did attend a bunch of anti war marches in London including the biggest march, but would I support imperialism if it delayed the crash its tempting .

Really you should ask people after or during the crash or die-off because I think most people would say what the CIA man did in my clip , they might not now ask them then

[Ludwig]

The older I get and the more I read, the less sure I am that it's ever easy for politicians to do the right thing.

Imagine if the REAL question had been put to the public: do you want us to raid Iraq for its oil, or do you want to be eating bark in 10 years' time?

It's very easy to be liberal and touchy-feely when the outcome doesn't affect you or your family one way or the other.

There's a part of me that is glad Blair did our dirty work for us, if it delays the onset of of social hell. I think most people, if they were truly honest, and truly appreciated the implications of oil shortages, would feel the same, even if they didn't admit it.

I agree with RC that there may well have been some threat, veiled or overt, from the US that persuaded Blair to join them.

I'm much more reticent than I used to be in criticising the Iraq war. As long as I drive a car and eat food provided with the aid of fertlisers, tractors and lorries, I feel it would be hypocritical to get all self-righteous about it. I couldn't have agreed to the War myself, but one of the reasons I never went into politics is that I like an easy life.

[biffvernon]

The older I get and the more I read, the less sure I am that it's ever easy for politicians to do the right thing.

Indeed. It was probably quite difficult for Robin Cook to do the right thing and resign from the government. But then we elect politicians to do the right thing. It's kinda their job.

[Ludwig]

Really you should ask people after or during the crash or die-off because I think most people would say what the CIA man did in my clip , they might not now ask them then

"Ask 'em when they're running out. Ask 'em when there's no heat in their homes and they're cold. Ask 'em when their engines stop. Ask 'em when people who have never known hunger start going hungry. You wanna know something? They won't want us to ask 'em. They'll just want us to get it for 'em!"
(From "Three Days of the Condor")

[Ludwig]

The older I get and the more I read, the less sure I am that it's ever easy for politicians to do the right thing.

Indeed. It was probably quite difficult for Robin Cook to do the right thing and resign from the government. But then we elect politicians to do the right thing. It's kinda their job.

And how much use was Robin Cook as an ex-minister?

If, as a politician, you were not prepared to compromise with your conscience, you'd resign within the first few days. What use would that be? Politics is the art of the possible.

Politicians' job is to do the right thing for the country. I can't say for sure that I don't think Tony Blair did the right thing for the country, even if from a purely moral point of view he did the wrong thing.

I do admire Robin Cook, but his case illustrates my point: in politics, to achieve anything you have to get your hands dirty.

[Ludwig]

PS I was struck by the bit in that "Blood and Oil" film where Bush Snr. mentioned oil security as a reason for invading Iraq in 1991, and the American public didn't like it at all. So other spurious justifications were brought in and oil wasn't mentioned again. I don't think the American public's response reflects so much on their good will as on their ignorance of the importance of oil.

[biffvernon]

And how much use was Robin Cook as an ex-minister?

Probably not much - but sadly he died too soon. Maybe the point of resigning is that you get to be elected leader a few years later. Cook never got that chance.

[kenneal - lagger]

I don't think the American public's response reflects so much on their good will as on their ignorance of the importance of oil.

More a comment on their hypocrisy. As good Christians, all, they don't like to be reminded of the human costs of their lifestyle.