Tories show their true colours early

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 12 Sep 2010, 16:32

Incidentally Beria, how do you square your attitude of "There's work for those who want it" with the fact that you are unemployed? Your disparagement of the economically unproductive might be more palatable if you weren't among them.

Perhaps you aren't claiming benefits and you think this makes you more virtuous than those who are? In which case, I assume you are living on either savings or your parents' money - well, lucky you; not everyone has parents who can support them, or has worked in jobs well-paid enough to provide them with a cushion.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2010, 16:38

Lord Beria3 wrote: Secondly, there are areas of the UK in which entire towns are on incapacity benefit - this is absurd!

Not only absurd but also untrue. Get a grip, man.

woodpecker · Post by **woodpecker** » 12 Sep 2010, 16:39

nexus wrote:Woodpecker asked Beria:Do you just cut and paste together phrases you find on the internet in a random fashion?

I've started to do a kind of 'cut and paste' of my own. I cut LB3s posts by missing out his ones on any given thread, then I paste them in a mental file that says 'probably not worth looking at...'

I've decided to do the same. He has 'troll' written all over him.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 12 Sep 2010, 16:53

Nexus/woodpecker - glad to see that I have such a impact on you. Now moving on...

My basic point is that there IS a deficit.

Cuts need to be made and as the welfare state takes up a third of national spending, clearly cuts have to be made.

Ideally, benefits to the disabled and sick can be avoided. I sincerely hope that that Osbourne can avoid those kinds of cuts, and focus on the beneift fraud and the inevitable waste in the system.

Regarding unemployed, clearly the State needs to train the unemployed in finding new jobs.

However, the state can't create jobs, it has to come out of the private sector to create long term sustainable job creation.

I'm afraid, as there is no money left, some tough choices will need to be made.

I realise that this might make me unpopular among some members here, but that is sometimes the price of honesty.

Critics of the coalition government criticise every proposed cut, but don't seem to provide any alternatives. What are your proposals on dealing with the deficit and the unemployed?

woodpecker · Post by **woodpecker** » 12 Sep 2010, 18:25

Ludwig wrote:Incidentally Beria, how do you square your attitude of "There's work for those who want it" with the fact that you are unemployed?

The only conclusion is that he doesn't want work!

I somehow doubt that Mr Beria is living off savings after being a student (debt) and having a p-t job.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 12 Sep 2010, 18:43

I am currently looking for work, I've applied for jobs, I've had a interview which hopefully will do well.

I don't enjoy not working, it gets boring after a while, and as soon as I get a permament job I will be fine.

Regarding money, I'm currently living on my savings (from working in the past), and spending as little as possible (which is why I am spending too much time on this forum) until I get a job.

Its not good fun not working, I can't stand being unemployed.

When I discuss issues like benefits,welfare and debt, I am only looking at unsustainable trends which will eventually erupt in a perfect storm. If people want to personalise or shoot the messenger, thats their right, but issues like the deficit won't go away by blaming the messenger.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2010, 18:55

Lord Beria3 wrote: Cuts need to be made and as the welfare state takes up a third of national spending, clearly cuts have to be made.

But welfare is a good thing (there's a clue in the name). If 100% of a nation's spending were to be on welfare that nation might fare well.

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 12 Sep 2010, 19:01

Lord Beria3 wrote: When I discuss issues like benefits,welfare and debt, I am only looking at unsustainable trends which will eventually erupt in a perfect storm. If people want to personalise or shoot the messenger, thats their right, but issues like the deficit won't go away by blaming the messenger.

It might help if you backed up some of your more outlandish statements with proof.

For example:

Secondly, there are areas of the UK in which entire towns are on incapacity benefit - this is absurd!

Not only is it outlandish, it's also pretty much impossible. You'll need to provide evidence or find yourself constantly questioned and not taken at all seriously/be accused of trolling.

I'm not having a dig, just giving you some friendly advice.

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 12 Sep 2010, 19:15

biffvernon wrote:The whole point of the Tories is to shrink the size of government, forcing people to stand on their own two feet, or fall over if they haven't got any.

Three things there and they are not necessarily true and certainly don't follow.

Is it the whole point of the Tories is to shrink the size of government?

I think not.

Do the Tories want to force people to stand on their own two feet?

Debatable. But isn't it also the aim of the Transition Movement for people to be able to stand on their own two feet?

Do the Tories want people to fall over if they haven't got any 'feet'?

I doubt it. Why deliberately create the circumstances for a discontented, angry underclass to appear? That is surely a recipe for insurrection.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2010, 19:17

foodimista wrote: I think not.

Ha! See, they've got you.

(Transition is about making communities resilient - nothing to do with Toryism.)

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 12 Sep 2010, 19:35

Eh?

Didn't I just say that?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Sep 2010, 20:14

No, you said "But isn't it also the aim of the Transition Movement for people to be able to stand on their own two feet? "

Transition is about empowering communities to stand on their own set of collective feet, sharing stuff irrespective of whether any particular individual has their own feet.

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 12 Sep 2010, 22:22

So in your Transition, people will be able to loll around with their ipods whilst 'The Community' brings food to their sofa?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 13 Sep 2010, 07:27

People = community

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 13 Sep 2010, 07:40

You're blinkered by dogma, only seeing what you want to read.