Are you ready for a world without antibiotics?

[Lord Beria3]

Yes but they considered it, and thats the key point! It went far enough that the general staff seriously considered such a false-flag operation... thus opening the possibility of other potential government false flag operations like 9/11.

[featherstick]

The second trend is for just the sort of munitions that have been discussed in this thread. Language-specific munitions such as that will only explode when they "hear" Pashtun or Dari, geno-specific munitions that can target specific family members. These could be active or passive, in some instance deployed to deny whole areas to people speaking the wrong language.

He was categorical that enormous amounts of resources were being deployed on the research and development of these weapons.

I've just spent a few minutes trying to remember who this specialist was - it was a fat little hyperactive bloke from King's College Defence Studies dept, but he's not on their staff list now.

It was Paul Hirst from Birkbeck, in a joint lecture with Douglas Hurd about the future of war and nation-states. Hirst is dead now, unfortunately. I'd have to find my notes to give more detail, but my conclusion was that nation states will continue to exist as platforms for ever-increasing militarisation.

[Comp_Lex]

Yes but they considered it, and thats the key point! It went far enough that the general staff seriously considered such a false-flag operation... thus opening the possibility of other potential government false flag operations like 9/11.

I know that that's the key point, but it was not accepted by the Secretary of Defense and the President. That's what matters.

EDIT: Now if everyone accepted those plans, then we would be talking about something here. Mind you that those plans didn't need to be implemented at the time. If everyone just accepted those plans, then you would have me on your side.

[Lord Beria3]

The point I am trying to make is that discussions over 9/11 are legitimate as the example of ON shows that the chief of staffs considered false flag ops.

You say that the president and secretary of defence were opposed so the issue is trivial; thats a odd logic, if the same military proposed a similar sort of covert plan later on, with say Nixon as president, (Watergate - ring a bell?), than maybe it would have got the go ahead.

The US national security state was capable of planning false flag operations against its own people, thats the bottom line. Healthy sceptism about the claims of any governments is a perfectly legitimate area of debate, and anybody who tries to ban such debates is totally wrong.

[Comp_Lex]

The person I'm talking about didn't quit doing weird stuff with his ideas, like taking over threads of other people and harassing them over the mail as well (including me and other admins). He was really angry at me at one point. The admin group received further complaints from other users, so we banned him.
So, I'm really wary of people like him. You know, I was very kind to him and just moved his topics to the open discussion subforum in the beginning. We banned him later on, not immediately. Luckily, that was the only big issue we've encountered on our forum.

Further, Nixon was an idiot anyway.

[gug]

Dammit... I smell conspiracy Thread and I missed it !


Forget Northwoods - which as stated, was just a plan, Just look at only what we know about.

Iraq/WMD - sexing up the documents.
Gulf Of Tonkin incident - that never happened - a million vietnamese and 55000 US died for that little lie.

Sinking of USS Liberty.

The Reichstag Fire, Marinus van der lubbe lost his head for that one, we all know the rest.

Operation Gladio / bologna railway staion bombing (80 dead) (and other excursions)

Operation Ajax - Iran got screwed, we got BP !
Kicked off with a bit of sponsored terrorism

you'll no doubt remember Alexander Litvinenko being murdered with polonium in about the most public "hit" possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Litvinenko
Bearing in mind who he was and what he was saying.

More recently we have this little hilarity.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -jail.html

Is it normal for our soldiers to drive around in plain clothes shooting at policemen and then for them to be rescued from the iraqi police station by ramming it with a tank ? - no. very definitely nothing iffy going on.

On a semi-related note, I read this article today. When you're next about to board a plane, They've made you reliquish your nail clippers, empty your drink into the bin and forced you through a millimeter wave body scanner (for our security), just remember this article from "Homeland Security Today" http://www.hstoday.us/content/view/11967/150/1/0/

If you want to set your pants on fire and blow up an aeroplane, chances are they'll green light your visa.

Theres plenty more that that above, but thats what we very *definitely* know about.

Anyone who just doesn't buy the idea of false flag terrorism just doesn't know history.




So, is it possible that US or other intelligence services had a hand in 9/11 or even 7/7.

No , absolutely not. Theres no precedent for that in history at all. no way.

[gug]

and.... to bring it back on topic ( and as mentioned in another thread )


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacteriophage

Used in the east for decades. Just about every type of bacteria has a related "phage" virus. They mutate/develop/evolve together.

no chemicals required, no pouring bleach into infected wounds just mother nature at her finest.

[Ludwig]

I think this gene specific bio weapon theory is a bit unlikely in reality. I worked on the human genome project (in a peripheral role) and the history of gene therapy experiments is dismal. We are a lot less good at manipulating DNA in a reliable way than many people think. It is extremely unlike that we could develop a bug with a 0%/ 100% lethality based on a single gene in the victim's DNA. You would be lucky to get 20% /80% ratio.

Also given the centuries of interracial mixing that history has introduced to global DNA mix, there are going to be very few genes that could give even 80/20 ratio between the perpetrators and the intended victims.

Given our inability to keep ahead of superbugs through antibiotics, it would be deeply irrational to deliberately introduce more even in a biowarfare context.

A suggestion I have read is that the "depopulation virus" would react with the purported vaccine to kill the subject. That would enable the "insiders" to avoid the cull.

I don't know how likely it is that such plans exist, but the logic seems sound.

For what it's worth, I found the swine flu furore rather peculiar, but I don't claim to know what's going on. Some of the theories sound plausible to me, given the unprecedented crisis humanity is facing, but all I know is that I don't feel confident we've been told the whole truth.

[Lord Beria3]

Fascinating post from Oildrum on the trigger of a die-off

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2516

I've mulled this post over for some time and now I'm pretty confident on predicting the chain of events that will lead to collapse. With this I can answer the following questions.
0.) Trigger
1.) Where
2.) How

When is dependent on knowing where and how so if you can solve for where and how you know when.

The trigger 0)
Where is actually caused by a combination of two factors peak oil and global warming. The vital role that peak oil plays is fairly simple Subsidies. When the price of oil remains at a sustained high price countries that practice subsidies will suffer bankruptcy. So the key trigger is a combination of countries that have subsidies and will hit bankruptcy.

How part 1.

How is not peak oil related but caused by a global warming induced natural event. Either a major earthquake from changes is the weight of seawater over a fault or a typhoon or drought or volcanic eruption again related to the interaction of plate tectonics and the changing ocean. In all cases the how is directly related to global warming. So the second major trigger is not oil diretly but a related convergent catastrophe.

How part 2.
The second part of how two involves the previous loss of government from peak oil destroyed subsidies so this region that will experience this natural catastrophe must have initially effectively lost a government control because of subsidies. It need to be in a anarchic state.

How part 3.
The final effect a the real killer is infectious diseases I realized in this thread that we have not considered conditions that would result in long suppressed diseases becoming virulent the combination of civil war and a mega natural disaster ensures that the population is either immediately susceptible to easily cured diseases or that it would become a breeding ground for new virulent forms that are not easily controlled the original anarchic conditions ensure that modern medicine simply cannot reach the population thus nullifying our technology. The key point is a bio-engineered pathogen is not required although the introduction of one would certainly increase the death toll.
You don't need a conspiracy.

Now Where.

The general era for where is pretty obvious the combination of high density urban population and oil subsidies occurs in south Asia. From the Philippines to southern China then over to Bangladesh. This is the region that has the right conditions Africa is actually lower since they simply don't have the urban densities required to be the trigger but certainly India/Africa/Pakistan represent the second stage triggers followed but China. My favorite trigger for the end of the oil civilization is the Philippines followed closely by Bangladesh its a toss up between the two depending on when the natural disastier and social situation collide.

In any case the region is certian but the timing is dependent on a intial collapse of goverment before a natural disaster oocures to ensure that easy access to modern medicans is denide to a dense population. At that point simple virulent mutations will ensure the emergance of a super bug you don't need a biologist.

So this leaves when since in my secario when is a dependent variable of where and how when can be predicted once the initial condition are met, Since the key driver is a large population of starving people without access to medical care we actually have some time between the trigger events and the actual event which is the domino effect spreading of these diseases overwhelming any attempt to get medicines into areas that are war zones.

So from the time of the initial trigger event you coul have up to a year before the SHTF. So I predict that world population will actually undergo a significant decent of say by 30%-50% right at the beginning as the combination of disease disorder and the resulting starvation wipes out a large part of the third world population. Western nations with a lower population will suffer less but considering the magnitude of the problem we are talking about losing 10-30% of the population vs third world so I think less is relative and beyond comprehension in any case. After this regions that have reasonable local resources for food production will go in a steady decline until that undershoot
local resources.

So I'm pretty confident that we can predict where and what the triggers we need to be vigilant for and better we actually have some time 6 months to a year between the initiation of the collapse of the oil civilization and when it becomes hard to use the resources of this civilization to do anything no matter where you are.

[kenneal - lagger]

We're on our way then with the floods in Pakistan. Disease is spreading, the government can't reach much of the country, terrorists are feeding the people in many areas which is destabilising government and you have the added problem of Pakistani nukes falling into the hands of the terrorists. This could bring India into a nuclear confrontation to add to the disease problem.

[Lord Beria3]

Yup, regarding the Pakistan situation, although i don't think this is the trigger point, it does give a taste on how it might develop.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/aug20 ... -a26.shtml

Millions of displaced Pakistanis are threatened with starvation and an epidemic of water-borne diseases. According to the United Nations, there have already been over 120,000 documented cases of dengue and malaria, while hundreds of thousands have been affected by skin infections and diarrhea. The World Health Organization stated that there has been a 30 percent increase in cases of diarrhea around the country since the flooding began.

The Pakistani economy had already been reeling from the global economic crisis and the militancy fueled by Islamabad’s partnership with US imperialism even before the onset of the floods. Over 30 percent of the country’s cultivated farmland is submerged while nearly 20 million Pakistanis, 13 percent of the population, have been displaced by the floods. The Pakistani ruling elite and its allies abroad fear that widespread social unrest could arise out of food shortages and inflation caused by the devastation.

I think that for the moment the world is capable of containing such a crisis, but I think like the crises leading up to WW1, at some point down the line, a natural disaster so horrific will happen, that the world won't be able to contain the resulting anarchic implosion fuelled by deadly pandemics, resulting in a widespread die-of, as outlined by the author, across the Eurasian super-continent, along the lines of the 14th century Black Death.

Maybe Europe will be able to contain the worst of the mess, and other regions seperated by sea could isolate themselves like the Japonese, the Aussies and maybe the Americas.

However, the conseqences of economic isolation would shatter the JIT systems underpinning globalisation, forcing a Churchillian transition into self-sufficiency by the developed world.

In the long run, maybe a good thing.