Lessons Learned From Grandparents

[JohnB]

Here's an article that's worth reading, about the advantages of living a simpler life.
http://tinyhouseblog.com/tiny-house/how ... ndparents/

[UndercoverElephant]

I guess I'm lucky in a way, because I had all this continually drummed into me by mother. She was born in 1939 (the fourth child of an east-end family with an invalid TB-ridden father) and grew up with almost nothing except hand-me-downs and human kindness. There was never any prospect of my getting the latest trendy toy for Christmas, which I may have resented a bit at the time but am thankful for now. It still amazes me how much the world has changed in the space of one persons lifetime. Postwar austerity really wasn't that long ago, but for many people growing up today it might as well have been the middle ages.

[RenewableCandy]

Yer not wrong UE, and what you said is a useful reminder that, although I remember my grandparents' house (last seen in 1980: big veg patch, no CH, fridge, or washer) as if it were yesterday, the small Renewables have of course never seen it.

[JonB]

Here's an article that's worth reading, about the advantages of living a simpler life.
http://tinyhouseblog.com/tiny-house/how ... ndparents/

A bit rose tinted.
They had a big garden.
They had a car. Back then.
They weren't rich,but they were not poor.
They chose not to spend money in a particular way.
Good for them.
They could also choose to escape that life, if they wanted.
Others may not have been so lucky.

We grew up not well off,no car, with a small yard. My old man grew up poor in the middle of Newcastle born just before the war. I'm a suburbanite in a small to average 3 bed semi with a 70ft garden. Trees and green space within a few minutes walk.
I know which I prefer.

[adam2]

Agree, many of our grandparents had to put up with very low living standards, and we may well be forced to return to such, but I dont think that it is something to aspire to or look forward to.
A fridge saves a vast amount of time and trouble, compared to daily or twice daily shopping for perishables. Refrigeration also reduces food waste and may improve health.
A washing machine saves a great deal of labour compared to hand washing, and if used sensibly uses no more fuel or water than hand laundry.
Electric lights are in most circumstances far safer and more convienient than oil lamps or candles, and more fuel efficient.
A reasonable size garden is not only pleasant but gives space to grow food, and safe excercise space for kids or pets.
A fair sized home is not only more comfortable than cramped qaurters, but gives enough space to store tools, supplies, food, water, candles etc, all of which could be very valuable in cases of shortage or other emergency.

[the_lyniezian]

Agree, many of our grandparents had to put up with very low living standards, and we may well be forced to return to such, but I dont think that it is something to aspire to or look forward to.

Indeed, this seems to be one of the main complaints when I suggest the (hypothetical) possibility of doing so to certain older relatives. They after all know what it was like...

I suppose one way people did get away with it back then isprobably that it was expected that the woman of the family stayed at home and did most of the household work. (Plus I suppose the kids might have been expected to pull their weight with the chores). That and I suppose there was less preference to what might be classed as idleness- no 'zoning out' in front of the TV every night... no TV!

Some people must manage though, and not care less. The Amish for example...

A fridge saves a vast amount of time and trouble, compared to daily or twice daily shopping for perishables. Refrigeration also reduces food waste and may improve health.

Perhaps, but I suppose there are many things that don't need to be stored in the fridge. My aunts for example don't store vegetables or bread in theirs, whereas we do. There are tins. And I suppose there are plenty of things that can be preserved in other way (pickling, jarring and so on).

Perhaps things like milk and cheese are the main items I can think of. Perhaps opened jars and some leftovers- althoguh with careful use, one wonders...

A washing machine saves a great deal of labour compared to hand washing, and if used sensibly uses no more fuel or water than hand laundry.

More exercise though... and by do I need that...

Really though I'm going to have to try that sometime- wash everything by hand, to see how much work it is. It might make me more careful about how much I wash...

One advantage I can see is in terms of space- in hte recollections of those older relatives, if I recall correctly, the (tin) wash tub doubled as a bath, and hung outside in the back yard when not being used. (No chance of that here, we've only the sink...)

Electric lights are in most circumstances far safer and more convienient than oil lamps or candles, and more fuel efficient.

This is one thing we can improve on whilst still maintaining almost such a lifestyle. Did anyone suggest we must be entirely technologically backward? Perhaps some of those wind-up lanterns might be an alternative choice- if they work better than mine that is...

A reasonable size garden is not only pleasant but gives space to grow food, and safe excercise space for kids or pets. [/quiote]

But with the ever increasing demand for houses, there is going to be limited space for large gadens and such. Otherwise there will be no agricultural land and other 'green spaces'...

A fair sized home is not only more comfortable than cramped qaurters, but gives enough space to store tools, supplies, food, water, candles etc, all of which could be very valuable in cases of shortage or other emergency.

Cellars? Outhouses? And the fact that so much more of life in the past simply seems to have been lived outside.

And, for example, if there was no space to sit down at a desk or at a computer, the library is available for such things.

You could consider the impact not only of the bare essentials but also of luxuries- TV, hi-fis, desktop computers, cars etc. (Cars can be useful for getting to some jobs and carting stuff round...)

[tattercoats]

I'm increasingly grateful for my old-fashioned upbringing - in many ways, I had a 1950's childhood twenty years late.

I think we can take the best of the new and keep the best of the old. Indoor plumbing and a fridge and a washing machine are part of it, sure; basic knowledge of cooking, gardening and mending (sewing and knitting are jolly useful) make less go a lot further, although they do take time. Sadly, a whole generation of adults just a little younger than me didn't grow up seeing any of that done, and that makes it as distant as alien technology to many of them.

I see the sense, therefore, in the Transition movement's 'upskilling' aspect (as with many others). Only - it *is* hard to find the time among my own knitting, cooking and gardening to be able to teach other people...

[UndercoverElephant]

Agree, many of our grandparents had to put up with very low living standards, and we may well be forced to return to such, but I dont think that it is something to aspire to or look forward to.
A fridge saves a vast amount of time and trouble, compared to daily or twice daily shopping for perishables. Refrigeration also reduces food waste and may improve health.
A washing machine saves a great deal of labour compared to hand washing, and if used sensibly uses no more fuel or water than hand laundry.
Electric lights are in most circumstances far safer and more convienient than oil lamps or candles, and more fuel efficient.
A reasonable size garden is not only pleasant but gives space to grow food, and safe excercise space for kids or pets.
A fair sized home is not only more comfortable than cramped qaurters, but gives enough space to store tools, supplies, food, water, candles etc, all of which could be very valuable in cases of shortage or other emergency.

What, no new mobile phone every 18 months?

Most human beings lived in what we'd now call poverty for the whole history of civilisation until the middle of the 20th century. It's a long way down to what you are talking about.

ETA: But they always had plenty of alcohol...

[kenneal - lagger]

Many of the problems of modern day living come down to the virtual elimination of two subjects from the school curriculum: domestic science and, lyniezian's going to love this, religious education, at least the traditional one where basic Christianity was taught. These were part of the basis of an old fashioned upbringing where self reliance and getting on with, and helping the neighbours were important.

Obesity can be put down to lack of cooking skills among the young, leading to a diet of fast food and ready meals. There isn't any teaching of the concept of a balanced diet either, which adds to the problem. For the future, the young don't have any idea of preserving of food: jam making wouldn't occur to most teenagers now, nor to most of their parents. Bottling (canning for our American readers) is the same. As for salting: that's just unhealthy according to modern medical thinking.

The basic Christian concepts of, humility, unselfishness, of doing unto others.... and loving thy neighbour have been forgotten. It's all bragging, respeck and street cred now.

Put those two items back into schools and in about ten years we might start to see a change in society. Unfortunately, I don't think we have ten years. Let's just hope that the Transition movement can spread enough to make a difference because government won't be able to.

[RogueMale]

Obesity can be put down to lack of cooking skills among the young, leading to a diet of fast food and ready meals. There isn't any teaching of the concept of a balanced diet either, which adds to the problem.

It may be part of the problem, but the reason is simply that we consume more energy than we expend, and that's mostly down to sedentary lifestyles. Most jobs involve sitting at a desk in an office, and most people get around by car. If anything, caloric intake has reduced over the last 50 years or so.

Now, if only we could tap into this unused supply of stored energy when oil becomes scarcer.

The basic Christian concepts of, humility, unselfishness, of doing unto others.... and loving thy neighbour have been forgotten. It's all bragging, respeck and street cred now.

I agree with this. It's not that Christianity isn't taught any more, it's that the emphasis has shifted from good deeds to faith.

I would add a third, very important change for the worse: children nowadays usually play indoors on computers and games consoles, and don't go out exploring their neighbourhood or play outdoor games to anything like the same extent as before. This not only makes them more prone to obesity, but also means they have less contact with Nature.

[adam2]

I also blame many of todays problems on a lack of basic scientific knowledge, not just among the sheeple, but also among the elected leaders/masters.

A fair part of the population believe that a backyard inventor has made a vehicle engine that can run on water, but that the CIA, MI5, the wicked oil companies, buried the invention and/or murdered the inventor.
A basic knowledge of science would show such ideas to be nonsense.

Likewise, politicians have been known to throw public money at research into alleged perpetual motion devices.

The teaching industry avoids science related subjects because these contain facts, laws, and principles which must be learnt correctly, and understood.
Better by far to teach media or social studies, you cant be wrong in these subjects ! they contain a range of valid opinions, rather than hard facts.
One can argue forever as to whether a certain political system is a good idea or not, all opinions are valid if well argued.
One can not however argue as to whether or not 2 plus 2 eqauls 5. It does not and that is that.
Likewise with basic scientific knowledge there should be no doubt that an electric heater produces heat in exact proportion to the energy used, but this is not well understood.
Most of the population dont know the difference between kilowatts and kilowatt hours, not much chance of rational choices re energy use, is there !
Even the suppliers of the equipment dont seem to know the difference between amps and ampere hours !

[RenewableCandy]

Apparently (national food survey figures) we consumed more calories in the 1980s than we do now, and there were far fewer obese people. So I think as far as obesity goes, it's the battery-hen lifestyle that's doing us in.

The RE thing is a nice theory, but not like it was taught at our school (35 years ago) if you please! No humility, etc etc just ream after ream of tales of one lot of "chosen people" knocking seven bells out of another lot of "chosen people" with the occasional "Deus ex machina" involving...everybody being wiped out! Oh yes and the torture. The most amusing effect all this had on me was, my stock response to that common whinge "Society is getting more violent these days..." was "Wot about in the Bible?".

[Catweazle]

I also blame many of todays problems on a lack of basic scientific knowledge, not just among the sheeple, but also among the elected leaders/masters.

You are SO right. Modern tech education seems to teach lots of Microsoft and very little Newton.

[Leaf]

Kenneal, I agree Domestic Science should be brought back.

I remember that for most years it was just (?) cookery but for those that continued into the 4th and 5th form it was a comprehensive household management course including cleaning, laundry and budgeting.
My 'umble comprehensive had a DS department complete with bathroom and bedroom side rooms. The main classrooms had walk-in pantries and a dining area and a genuine stand-alone airing cupboard.

On a lighter but practical note if we still had DS and therefore DS baskets I'd be able to find elasticated covers for my baskets easily!

Any ideas where I can find any?
Online or here in the South West.

[contadino]

The basic Christian concepts of, humility, unselfishness, of doing unto others.... and loving thy neighbour have been forgotten. It's all bragging, respeck and street cred now.

Oh bollocks. Maybe you've forgotten your history. There was no humility and 'doing unto others...' during the Crusades.

RE was about institutionalising religious intolerance. I'd go so far as to say that if you let your kids believe the shite they were taught 20 years ago in RE classes, you're a negligent parent. Keep religion out of schools.

FFS, on one hand you're saying 'we want more religious hatred', and on the other hand you're complaining about a segregated society. Make your mind up.