#FreedomFlotilla

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 02 Jun 2010, 22:58

Vortex wrote:
you can condemn this horrendous attack
Just saw the video on the news.

The Israelis were set upon very nastily by the 'peace' activists.

Personally if I saw a colleague being beaten with metal bars I might also be tempted to fire to save him.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e25604.htm

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 03 Jun 2010, 07:50

Reads like piracy to me but no doubt the Israeli investigation will reveal the full truth.

My father did his National Service in the Middle East at the end of WWII, including in Palestine, and he told me how the Jewish settlers stole the Palestinians' lands... They would find some land they liked and ask who owned it. The Arabs would say "we own it". The Jews would say "show us the document that says you own it". The Arabs would say "We don't have any documents. It has always been our land. We don't need any documents". The Jews would go away and come back with a document that said the land was now theirs. To this day there are still Arabs alive who can go and look at their old homes but can't go back to live there.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 03 Jun 2010, 08:58

Three questions for you Vortex:

OK

Last year you posted about the G8 protest that you attended in London, Vortex, why did you go?

To complain: Google 'punish the looters' - that was my banner.
However ... I knew it would be pointless, but you've got to try. I was interviewed by around 30 TV crews, radio teams, journalists etc. Total effect : nil.

One thing : there were only about 4000 demonstrators there! In the Good Old Days there would have been ten times that many ... but I suspect that modern media dilutes demo attendance.

Are people signing an online petition hurting you in anyway?

Of course not. But what real effect will they have? If they took to the streets (more than 4000 at a time) then maybe just maybe they would make a difference. The easier approach of pressing a key or two will sate their anger without any real world impact.

What is you view of the situation in Israel and the occupied territories?

Confused!

Israel certainly stole the Palestinian lands - but does that make me want to support Hamas? Hmmm ...

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 03 Jun 2010, 09:03

Those seem fair enough answers to me......

gug · Post by **gug** » 03 Jun 2010, 09:58

Vortex wrote:
Israel certainly stole the Palestinian lands - but does that make me want to support Hamas? Hmmm ...

So actually doing anything to aid gazans is support for hamas ?

Thats a bit like saying going to the aid of a mugging victim is supporting the conservative party.

Deep thinking there vortex.

caspian · Post by **caspian** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:12

nexus wrote:I wonder how far the Israeli authorities would go, if they thought the world wasn't watching?

If the brakes were off, I fear they would try to exterminate the Palestinians. As it is, they're pushing them into the tightest corner imaginable, in what is effectively an open-air prison. And then when anyone complains about these conditions, they are immediately branded an anti-semite and a terrorist, in the most hysterical way possible. This tactic has been repeated over and over, and has generally been pretty successful.

Contrary to what is being reported in the press, from the Israelis' perspective this has been a successful mission. They prevented the floatilla from reaching Gaza, they got film of people beating their "brave" soldiers, they avoided any serious criticism from Western countries, and most importantly, they've sent a message to anyone thinking of attempting anything similar in future. The fuss will die down after a while, and Israel can get back to the business of making the Palestinians' lives as miserable as possible.

WolfattheDoor · Post by **WolfattheDoor** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:21

Vortex wrote:
you can condemn this horrendous attack
Just saw the video on the news.

The Israelis were set upon very nastily by the 'peace' activists.

Personally if I saw a colleague being beaten with metal bars I might also be tempted to fire to save him.

This was the video by the Israelis showing Israelis being attacked. Hmm. Not partial then...

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:23

So actually doing anything to aid gazans is support for hamas ?

Err - we're not talking about Hampstead or the Isle Of Wight here.

Gaza is a failed state, run by gangsters and killers.

They also have an annoying habit of launching rockets at their neighbours.

'Aiding Gazans' - especially with weapon making materials - is something we need to be cautious about.

The Palestinians have received billions of aid over the decades ... where has it all gone?

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:24

If the brakes were off, I fear they would try to exterminate the Palestinians.

And vice versa of course.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:36

Vortex wrote:Gaza is a failed state, run by gangsters and killers.

But surely most of the population are just ordinary people, who want to get on with their lives peacefully, with adequate food and shelter. Why should they be made to suffer because the people with the power (on both sides) want to play their f***ing stupid games?

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:40

Vortex wrote:Gaza is a failed state, run by gangsters and killers.

Actually, I think it is a toss-up between a concentration camp and a ghetto, overseen by the trigger-happy Israeli military.

Vortex, you exhibit that twisted 'eye for an eye' logic so beloved of thugs. Basically it goes along the lines of "every time you hit me I'll hit you back harder until you finally surrender." That is a recipe for the kind of situation we now have in Palestine. If you don't accept that the people in Gaza have been pushed to the extreme, to support for a government that will stand up for them - who you call gangsters and killers - then we have no common ground for discussion.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:40

JohnB wrote:
Vortex wrote:Gaza is a failed state, run by gangsters and killers.
But surely most of the population are just ordinary people, who want to get on with their lives peacefully, with adequate food and shelter. Why should they be made to suffer because the people with the power (on both sides) want to play their f***ing stupid games?

+1

I blame the Yanks.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:42

But surely most of the population are just ordinary people, who want to get on with their lives peacefully, with adequate food and shelter.

That is the key question!

Does the Gazan-in-the-street have a Western mind set?

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:44

Vortex, you exhibit that twisted 'eye for an eye' logic so beloved of thugs

Err - where did I do that?

Also, please remind me which poster here wanted to wipe out the whole of Israel?

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 03 Jun 2010, 11:46

emordnilap wrote:
JohnB wrote:
Vortex wrote:Gaza is a failed state, run by gangsters and killers.
But surely most of the population are just ordinary people, who want to get on with their lives peacefully, with adequate food and shelter. Why should they be made to suffer because the people with the power (on both sides) want to play their f***ing stupid games?
+1

I blame the Yanks.

+1