The multi-billion dollar global warming fraud

[stumuzz]

Don't you agree that the consensus opinion of the population is far more often than not rubbish?

Depends we rarely get a consensus. I would be quite happy if we had a referendum on Anglesey whether or not we should have another nuke plant. I’m firmly against it for many reasons I believe are absolutely right. However, if the majority vote for it, then I believe they will have weighed up the pros and cons and I will have to live with it.

In general the consensus groups are fed by the media/interest groups and thats were absolutism comes in. Which in turn stifles debate,argument,reasoning and future hitherto unknown ideas. We always must look for the plan B.

[emordnilap]

I agree stumuzz. No-one wants to be consulted on every last issue (space shuttle design indeed!) but how many of you have wished you'd been asked about major decisions which changed yours and thousands, millions of peoples' lives?

Elections, schmelections. They mean nothing; look at election promises, for heavens' sake. You vote for the least bad or the ones that promise to do something which will directly benefit you - but none of them are 100% in line with anyone's views, that would be impossible.

So, you vote them in because they, I dunno, promise to support your local hospital and then bang, they dump an incinerator on you or a motorway or nuclear or whatever and oh yes, don't worry, we'll vote them out at the next election.

There are many times when there is a painfully obvious need for a referendum on a specific issue but no, people are too stupid to decide.

[caspian]

Would a world without corporations be better?

Yes.

Sure there are some big high profile problems, but if the alternative is Soviet style government ownership I expect the world might be a worse place.

A false dichotomy. The choice isn't corporations vs communism, there are many other systems, some of which may well be preferable to the what we have now.

The public at large are dumb, really dumb.

Indeed, and this is one of the flaws in the idea of democracy. Unfortunately, the alternatives don't seem too palatable either. Was it Winston Churchill who said "democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the others"?

[biffvernon]

rWell, whatever. I got disillusioned as soon as I talked to the local council people tasked with leading the anti-climate-change project. The council openly buys into the BAU growth model, and when I asked in a meeting how this was remotely compatible with reducing carbon emissions, answers there were none.

Don't get disillusioned, get involved. These local councils are only as good as the people who make them up.

[clv101]

Would a world without corporations be better?

Yes.

There are no absolutes, if not corporations what?

Sure there are some big high profile problems, but if the alternative is Soviet style government ownership I expect the world might be a worse place.

A false dichotomy. The choice isn't corporations vs communism, there are many other systems, some of which may well be preferable to the what we have now.

Of course it's a false dichotomy, which I acknowledge in the following sentences you chose not to quote. There are indeed many other potential systems. I only used communism as an example of another system which did exist. Systems other than corporations and communism have the potential to exist, but so far haven't in a comparable way - involving 10s of millions of people for decades. We simply have no idea if they would work better, worse or at all.

The public at large are dumb, really dumb.

Indeed, and this is one of the flaws in the idea of democracy. Unfortunately, the alternatives don't seem too palatable either. Was it Winston Churchill who said "democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the others"?

I don't think dumb public is a flaw in the idea of democracy at all. Democracy address this potential problem by not have referendums every week on stuff most people don't know or care about. We elect a tiny subset to take the time and trouble on our behalf. On the whole they do a far far better job than governance by the popular mob would do in my opinion.

[Andy Hunt]

rWell, whatever. I got disillusioned as soon as I talked to the local council people tasked with leading the anti-climate-change project. The council openly buys into the BAU growth model, and when I asked in a meeting how this was remotely compatible with reducing carbon emissions, answers there were none.

Don't get disillusioned, get involved. These local councils are only as good as the people who make them up.

Yes and just to add to that, you will probably find an enclave of sustainability people in the council who are right on your wavelength, and are trying to influence the corporate entity.

The greenspace-type team is usually a good place to start looking.

[jcw]

RenewAmerica - 20/02/10

As the massive global warming fraud implodes, the one aspect of it that has not been explored in depth is the equally massive waste of billions of dollars spent by the United States and nations around the world, we were told, to avoid global warming.

Article continues ...

I'm afraid the world in general has concluded that there is no such thing as global warming. The sceptics have won.

This will obviously have a major impact on the way governments, corporations and the public at large view their future use of fossil fuels.

A couple of months ago, I thought the sheeple were beginning to realise that we were facing a world energy crisis of unequaled proportions. Even the mainstream newspapers were publishing articles about future oil shortages and the likely effects upon global economies.

This was an aberration. I now firmly believe that for the majority of people, the party 'isn't' over. Most can't wait to return to BAU (credit cards, high mortgages, et al) and seem to think that the credit crisis is a temporary blip which is totally disconnected from our unsustainable use of fuels.

What major event will it take to change their perceptions? If we can see the elephant in the room, why can't they?

</rant>

Peak oil will stop BAU.

I see AGW as a separate issue from peak oil.

Were you hoping that appropriate action concerning peak oil would be taken while most people are unaware of peak oil but imagine that the action is about AGW?

I'd rather inform the public about peak oil which I see as the major problem in the near future.

[emordnilap]

On the whole they do a far far better job than governance by the popular mob would do in my opinion.

Chris, and you're the one who brought up absolutes!

[RevdTess]

Don't get disillusioned, get involved. These local councils are only as good as the people who make them up.

Do councils have the power to do anything except scribble at the borders of the BAU mandate though?

I mean I saw a friend of mine create a strong Green Party in Watford from scratch, which has been very inspiring and can occasionally make minor tweaks along the road to oblivion, but at the same time, he's typically little more than an irritant to the lib/lab/con groups.

[clv101]

On the whole they do a far far better job than governance by the popular mob would do in my opinion.

Chris, and you're the one who brought up absolutes!

Urm... yeah, notice how I used expressions like "on the whole", "better" and "in my opinion". As I said there are no absolutes in any of this.

[caspian]

Of course it's a false dichotomy, which I acknowledge in the following sentences you chose not to quote.

Yes, that's true, but it kind of sounded as if you'd dismissed the alternatives because they were unproven. Personally, I'd like to see some sort of brake on the growth of companies. There seems to be an inbuilt assumption in business that growth is imperative, and a lack of growth is a sign of failure.

I don't think dumb public is a flaw in the idea of democracy at all.

But surely it's a flaw when politicians cave in to populist demands simply to ensure that they're re-elected? I cite the fuel protests in 2000 as an example, but there are many others. Admittedly, it's not always like that - the invasion of Iraq being a possible counter example.

[2 As and a B]

Don't get disillusioned, get involved. These local councils are only as good as the people who make them up.

Do councils have the power to do anything except scribble at the borders of the BAU mandate though?

Only if the locals, pitchfork and flaming torch in hand, grab the council by the scruff of the neck and demand that central government diktats are ripped up and returned.

As yet, local councils have no balls, but I think that will change when TSHFT.

[Andy Hunt]

Don't get disillusioned, get involved. These local councils are only as good as the people who make them up.

Do councils have the power to do anything except scribble at the borders of the BAU mandate though?

Only if the locals, pitchfork and flaming torch in hand, grab the council by the scruff of the neck and demand that central government diktats are ripped up and returned.

As yet, local councils have no balls, but I think that will change when TSHFT.

Spot on. Local government does not have the luxury of detachment from the population that central government has.

The trick is to get to know the people at the council who are 'on side' in any case. Even if it's only so you can easily get the rubber stamp for community allotment projects, funding bids etc.

[Aurora]

Peak oil will stop BAU.

Agreed.

I see AGW as a separate issue from peak oil.

I don't. I happen to believe that the two issues are inextricably linked.

Were you hoping that appropriate action concerning peak oil would be taken while most people are unaware of peak oil but imagine that the action is about AGW?

I'd rather inform the public about peak oil which I see as the major problem in the near future.

Agreed.

Unfortunately, no western government is about to spell out the imminent dangers of PO while on a short, 4-5 year watch.

Far too controversial - look what happened to Jimmy Carter when he tried.

[Aurora]

Here's a little gem from today's Washington Post.