Peak Oil and 911

wayne72 · Post by **wayne72** » 08 Feb 2006, 21:15

Bandidoz wrote:
wayne72 wrote:Anyone who's really interested in the Conspiracy side of 9/11 would be better off visiting this forum http://www.alien-ufos.com/forum/ to be honest.
That's rather like saying that anyone who has a job is a yuppie.

Confused I am???

I thought I was saying, if you want to discuss the Conspiracy aspect of 9/11 then maybe its better going to a site more dedicated to Conspiracy, thats all. I enjoy Conspiracies but I find the word "Conspiracy" is used to ridicule and avoid answering the questions, whilst not having to take you serious.

I think Tess explained it better but i'm sure you'll understand.

MacG · Post by **MacG** » 08 Feb 2006, 21:36

wayne72 wrote:
Bandidoz wrote:
wayne72 wrote:Anyone who's really interested in the Conspiracy side of 9/11 would be better off visiting this forum http://www.alien-ufos.com/forum/ to be honest.
That's rather like saying that anyone who has a job is a yuppie.
Confused I am???

I thought I was saying, if you want to discuss the Conspiracy aspect of 9/11 then maybe its better going to a site more dedicated to Conspiracy, thats all. I enjoy Conspiracies but I find the word "Conspiracy" is used to ridicule and avoid answering the questions, whilst not having to take you serious.

I think Tess explained it better but i'm sure you'll understand.

I simply dont unerstand? What exactly is your problem? Dont you belive the official explanation of 911? The official explanation is that it's a conspiracy. A conspiracy among a bunch of guys in caves in Afghanistan.

wayne72 · Post by **wayne72** » 08 Feb 2006, 22:06

MacG wrote:
wayne72 wrote:
Bandidoz wrote:That's rather like saying that anyone who has a job is a yuppie.
Confused I am???

I thought I was saying, if you want to discuss the Conspiracy aspect of 9/11 then maybe its better going to a site more dedicated to Conspiracy, thats all. I enjoy Conspiracies but I find the word "Conspiracy" is used to ridicule and avoid answering the questions, whilst not having to take you serious.

I think Tess explained it better but i'm sure you'll understand.
I simply dont unerstand? What exactly is your problem? Dont you belive the official explanation of 911? The official explanation is that it's a conspiracy. A conspiracy among a bunch of guys in caves in Afghanistan.

like I say have you watched this http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0224991194 it doesn't tell you what to believe, it just shows you things happening in slow motion and focusses in on things. Then you make your own mind up.

Its interesting to see those what look like controlled exploisions ocurring as the twin towers collapsed. But I'm no film or photography or even bomb expert so I can't say how real they are, I can only go with what i'm told and a demolition expert recons they were explosions used to bring down a building professionally.

Who knows or dares to dream!!!

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 08 Feb 2006, 22:25

wayne72 wrote:maybe its better going to a site more dedicated to Conspiracy

That's the point, there are varying degrees of (in)credibility, and different interest areas. "Conspiracy" has as broad a spectrum as "Job" (or "Work"). I don't go through bricklaying ads when looking for a plumber. I don't ask an architect to build a brick wall.

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 08 Feb 2006, 22:25

Air Crash Analysis
Cleveland Center regional air traffic control

Bill Crowley special agent, FBI

Ron Dokell president, Demolition Consultants

Richard Gazarik staff writer, Pittsburgh Tribune-Review

Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp.

Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D.,
ATP, CFI, A&P/IA president, Hynes Aviation Services; expert, aviation crashes

Ed Jacoby Jr. director,
New York State Emergency Management Office (Ret.); chairman, New York State Disaster Preparedness Commission (Ret.)

Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority

Cindi Lash staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Matthew McCormick manager, survival factors division, National Transportation Safety Board (Ret.)

Wallace Miller coroner, Somerset County, PA

Robert Nagan meteorological technician, Climate Services Branch, National Climatic Data Center

Dave Newell director, aviation and travel, VF Corp.

James O?Toole politics editor, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Pennsylvania State Police Public Information Office

Jeff Pillets senior writer,
The Record, Hackensack, NJ

Jeff Rienbold director, Flight 93 National Memorial, National Park Service

Dennis Roddy staff writer, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Master Sgt. David Somdahl public affairs officer,
119th Wing, North Dakota
Air National Guard

Mark Stahl photographer; eyewitness, United Airlines Flight 93 crash scene

Air Defense
Lt. Col. Skip Aldous (Ret.) squadron commander,
U.S. Air Force

Tech. Sgt. Laura Bosco public affairs officer,
Tyndall Air Force Base

Boston Center regional air traffic control

Laura Brown spokeswoman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Todd Curtis, Ph.D. founder, Airsafe.com; president, Airsafe.com Foundation

Keith Halloway public affairs officer, National Transportation Safety Board

Ted Lopatkiewicz director, public affairs, National Transportation Safety Board

Maj. Douglas Martin public affairs officer,
North American Aerospace Defense Command

Lt. Herbert McConnell public affairs officer,
Andrews AFB

Michael Perini public affairs officer, North American Aerospace Defense Command

John Pike director, GlobalSecurity.org

Hank Price spokesman, Federal
Aviation Administration

Warren Robak RAND Corp.

Bill Shumann spokesman,
Federal Aviation Administration

Louis Walsh public affairs officer, Eglin AFB

Chris Yates aviation security editor, analyst, Jane?s Transport

Aviation
Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B., S.M. professor of aeronautics, California Institute of Technology

Robert Everdeen public affairs, Northrop Grumman

Clint Oster professor of public and environmental affairs, Indiana University; aviation safety expert

Capt. Bill Scott (Ret. USAF) Rocky Mountain bureau chief, Aviation Week
Bill Uher News Media Office, NASA Langley Research Center

Col. Ed Walby (Ret. USAF)
director, business development, HALE Systems Enterprise, Unmanned Systems, Northrop Grumman

Image Analysis
William F. Baker member, FEMA Probe Team; partner, Skidmore, Owings, Merrill

W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. senior vice president, CTL Group; director,
FEMA Probe Team

Bill Daly senior vice president, Control Risks Group

Steve Douglass image analysis consultant, Aviation Week

Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D. founder, TREC; video forensics expert.

Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. professor of geology, Arizona State University

Rob Howard freelance photographer; WTC eyewitness

Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. professor of geophysics,
University of California, San Diego

Structural Engineering / Building Collapse
Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D. senior engineer, American Institute of Steel Construction

David Biggs, P.E. structural engineer, Ryan-Biggs Associates; member, ASCE team for FEMA report

Robert Clarke structural engineer, Controlled Demolitions Group Ltd.

Glenn Corbett technical editor, Fire Engineering; member, NIST advisory committee

Vincent Dunn deputy fire chief (Ret.), FDNY; author, The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety

John Fisher, Ph.D. professor of civil engineering, Lehigh University; professor emeritus, Center for Advanced Technology; member, FEMA Probe Team

Ken Hays executive vice president, Masonry Arts

Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D. professor of computer science, Purdue University; project director, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Allyn E. Kilsheimer, P.E.
CEO, KCE Structural Engineers PC; chief structural engineer, Phoenix project; expert in blast recovery, concrete structures, emergency response

Won-Young Kim, Ph.D. seismologist, Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, Columbia University

William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA

John Labriola freelance photographer, WTC survivor

Arthur Lerner-Lam, Ph.D. seismologist; director,
Earth Institute, Center for Hazards and Risk Research, Columbia University

James Quintiere, Ph.D. professor of engineering, University of Maryland member, NIST advisory committee

Steve Riskus freelance photographer; eyewitness, Pentagon crash

Van Romero, Ph.D. vice president, New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology

Christine Shaffer spokesperson, Viracon

Mete Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. Kettelhut Distinguished Professor of Structural Engineering, Purdue University; member, Pentagon Building Performance Report; project conception, September 11 Pentagon Attack Simulations Using LS-Dyna, Purdue University

Shyam Sunder, Sc.D.
acting deputy director, lead investigator, Building and Fire Research Laboratory, National Institute of Standards and Technology

Mary Tobin science writer, media relations, Earth Institute, Columbia University

Forman Williams, Ph.D. professor of engineering, physics, combustion, University of California,
San Diego; member, advisory committee, National Institute of Standards and Technology

All these people say the conspiracy is a "myth" (from my posted link).

What are wrong with these guys credentials?

Some are government institutions , but most are not, so are these guys being paid off or summit?

I dont fully believe the official government line, because they're covering up a cock up. They missed the intelligence which led to the worst terrorist incident ever.

That is what governments do , but it doesnt mean they conspire to murder thousands of their own citizens!

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 08 Feb 2006, 22:28

And David Bellamy says there is no Climate Change, and he has credentials.
http://www.speakers.co.uk/Retro/5138.htm

Lord Browne says "there's plenty of oil - no need to worry".

I personally know a number of engineers who say "we need Nuclear power" with absolutely NO idea about the feedstock required.

People will project an opinion that fits into their worldview.

In Rubicon, it's demonstrated that FBI investigation efforts were being interfered with.

Bozzio · Post by **Bozzio** » 08 Feb 2006, 23:04

Hi wayne72,

I think MacG is just making the point that the official story is also a conspiracy, that being Osama Bin Laden and a bunch of Middle Eastern men conspired to attack the US on home soil. Anyone who hates conspiracies might like to take note of this fact. If you believe the official story then you are a conspiracy theorist.

I agree with MacG when he suggests that 9/11 is less important now than the all the other shit that is being purpetrated in its name. My personal view is that 9/11 was a carried out by the PNAC whose motive is to promote a dominating American worlwide policy through the use of military power. They have created the whole al qaeda thing out of thin air to promote the war on terror as perfect cover for their imperialist motives. I'm not sure PO is even a main reason although I think they know about it and just see it as another excuse to continue with their manifesto which is as much about capturing resources as creating power and preserving the US economy. I do think that Blair has been reeled in so to speak and is caught up in the whole scheme. 7/7 was an MI5/MI6 job in my opinion and the evidence is there for all to see; another tactic designed to bring a gullible audience to its knees, just as the Bali bombings were used to gain support for Australia's military involvement in Iraq which was non-existent prior to that event. Even the ongoing wave of Muslim demonstrations appear to be staged to me. Convenient republishing of the cartoons, just as the Iran issue is getting more serious, stiring small but vocal crowds carrying banners all written in the same handwriting talking of more 9/11 attacks and death to westerners. This is perfect black propaganda.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1830500.stm

I'm afraid I even believe bird flu is another military weapon.

So that's my view out in the open and if all of this makes me a mad conspiracy theorist then I'm content with that. At least I can save time by not reading the crap printed in the newspapers about terrorists, al queda and so on.

I'm just waiting for the next 9/11 style attack to happen to maintain the pretense and prove perfect evidence for the reinstatement of the military draft in America.

This is my view and I know it's not supported by the vast majority of peakniks. I don't want you all to get a bad name just because of me.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 08 Feb 2006, 23:24

dr_doom wrote: I'm not saying the middle class "sucks" wealth away from the richest one percent. If anything, it's the other way around obviously.

In that case, why seek to get rid of them? I dont see the motivation.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 08 Feb 2006, 23:35

pointless post deleted.

dr_doom · Post by **dr_doom** » 08 Feb 2006, 23:41

Tess wrote:
dr_doom wrote: I'm not saying the middle class "sucks" wealth away from the richest one percent. If anything, it's the other way around obviously.
In that case, why seek to get rid of them? I dont see the motivation.

The ultimate plan according to the more wild conspiracy theorists.
Is that the elites want to revert to a feudal system.

No more middle class, simply a two tier system with rulers and slaves.

For the people at the top it's not even about money or accumulating more wealth.

It is about holding on to the power that they already have.

They obviously see this as the most likely plan to succeed in the face of PO.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 08 Feb 2006, 23:46

dr_doom wrote:
Tess wrote:
dr_doom wrote: I'm not saying the middle class "sucks" wealth away from the richest one percent. If anything, it's the other way around obviously.
In that case, why seek to get rid of them? I dont see the motivation.
The ultimate plan according to the more wild conspiracy theorists.
Is that the elites want to revert to a feudal system.

No more middle class, simply a two tier system with rulers and slaves.

For the people at the top it's not even about money or accumulating more wealth.

It is about holding on to the power that they already have.

They obviously see this as the most likely plan to succeed in the face of PO.

I'm surprised they even need conspiracies to achieve that. When was it ever different? They ruled the world before. They rule it now. They'll rule it in the future. Same game, different players. So I guess I dont buy the conspiracy angle because to me it just seems so obvious...

It's not even hidden.

dr_doom · Post by **dr_doom** » 08 Feb 2006, 23:52

Tess wrote:
dr_doom wrote:
The ultimate plan according to the more wild conspiracy theorists.
Is that the elites want to revert to a feudal system.

No more middle class, simply a two tier system with rulers and slaves.

For the people at the top it's not even about money or accumulating more wealth.

It is about holding on to the power that they already have.

They obviously see this as the most likely plan to succeed in the face of PO.
I'm surprised they even need conspiracies to achieve that. When was it ever different? They ruled the world before. They rule it now. They'll rule it in the future. Same game, different players. So I guess I dont buy the conspiracy angle because to me it just seems so obvious... It's not even hidden.

Yes, that's exactly the point. It's not very well hidden.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 09 Feb 2006, 00:01

dr_doom wrote: Yes, that's exactly the point. It's not very well hidden.

Actually, did we ever leave the feudal system? One thing I've noticed from my mba studies is how our big complex capitalist system just looks exactly like feudalism to me. It's a difficult cancer to remove.

dr_doom · Post by **dr_doom** » 09 Feb 2006, 00:08

Tess wrote:
dr_doom wrote: Yes, that's exactly the point. It's not very well hidden.
Actually, did we ever leave the feudal system? One thing I've noticed from my mba studies is how our big complex capitalist system just looks exactly like feudalism to me. It's a difficult cancer to remove.

Well the only difference is the number of levels.
At the moment several exist below the ruling class: upper middle class, middle class, working class etc.

Probably the only alternative to any of these hierarchical systems would be anarchy.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 09 Feb 2006, 00:10

dr_doom wrote: Probably the only alternative to any of these hierarchical systems would be anarchy.

Difficult to uninvent ideas, especially ideas that coincide with temptations of power. I dont think anarchy is sustainable when confronted by hierarchical power.