Haiti Earthquake Disaster

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 14 Jan 2010, 17:32

foodimista wrote:

The earthquake seems to have been very local, affecting only Port-au-Prince, or the journos have been particularly lazy. No damage on th erest of Hispaniola or on Cuba, Jamaica or Puerto Rico?

This earthquake was very close to the surface (5 miles or so). That makes for a very powerful effect directly above but less so further away.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 14 Jan 2010, 17:36

Aurora wrote:Jonny, are you trying to tell me that you don't feel any compassion for the victims in Haiti?

I feel compassion for the victims in Haiti. But I also agree with the basic drift of what Jonny and foodimistar are saying. Haiti is the ultimate basket case (ETA: OK, the second after Zimbabwe). It is exactly the sort of place where the die-off is going to happen first. We can send them sniffer dogs and lifting equipment to help them through the aftermath of this natural disaster, but that won't make much difference to the long-term prospects of the people of Haiti: it will remain hell on Earth.

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 14 Jan 2010, 18:03

Correction. The USA will keep it hell on Earth. Best thing the Cubans could ever have done was to kick out Uncle Sam, his corporations and his puppet governor.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 14 Jan 2010, 18:04

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Aurora wrote:Jonny, are you trying to tell me that you don't feel any compassion for the victims in Haiti?
I feel compassion for the victims in Haiti. But I also agree with the basic drift of what Jonny and foodimistar are saying. Haiti is the ultimate basket case (ETA: OK, the second after Zimbabwe). It is exactly the sort of place where the die-off is going to happen first. We can send them sniffer dogs and lifting equipment to help them through the aftermath of this natural disaster, but that won't make much difference to the long-term prospects of the people of Haiti: it will remain hell on Earth.

I totally agree but Jonny's initial comments left me with the impression that even short term aid to overcome their present predicament was a lost cause.

The Haitians need food, clean water, search and rescue professionals and medical staff on the ground as soon as possible - not a lot to ask in the grand scheme of things.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 14 Jan 2010, 18:10

Using Google earth, find Haiti.

Now turn off everything except BORDERS.

Now zoom in on the border between Haiti and the DR.

Spot the difference .... mud & rock on one side .. trees and green stuff on the other.

Apparently illegal logging in the DR is rewarded by .. execution.
Seems to work ...

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 14 Jan 2010, 22:34

Friends of Earth office destroyed, people missing

http://action.foe.org/t/7221/blastConte ... EY=1166373

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 14 Jan 2010, 22:57

BBC News - 14/01/10

The Red Cross estimates 45,000-50,000 people have died in Haiti's devastating earthquake, as rescue teams race against time to find survivors.

Article continues ...

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 14 Jan 2010, 23:09

Jared Diamond decribes the differences between Haiti and DR in his book Collapse. A summary can be found here

http://www.theglobalist.com/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=4776

Cheers

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 15 Jan 2010, 04:09

ziggy12345 wrote:Jared Diamond decribes the differences between Haiti and DR in his book Collapse. A summary can be found here

http://www.theglobalist.com/StoryId.aspx?StoryId=4776

Cheers

You took the words out of my mouth, Ziggy.

From my knowledge, the description of Cuba is somewhat over the top. The comparison seems to be very politically biased. From Diamond's book, the problems with Haiti go back hundreds of years to the French colonisation and are not recent. Also the Haitian end of the island is much less naturally fertile than the eastern DR end.

I would agree that the World Bank globalisation model of getting people off subsistence farming and into towns to make them consumers is hugely problematic. But it is happening all over the world and the rest of the world does not have the depth of problem that Haiti does. Haiti has a range of problems which are, hopefully, unique. You wouldn't want to see Haiti's problems anywhere else.

What to do? Education, reforestation and reurbanisation, roughly in that order. Massive Permaculture is required to rebuild the fertility of the land. Aid to be administered by NGOs and not through central or local government to ensure that it goes to the people and not Swiss Banks.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 15 Jan 2010, 04:26

Natural News - 15/01/10

Food security collapses in Haiti as machete-wielding gangs fight in the streets

Overnight, Haiti has gone from an organized, civil nation to a scenario of total chaos with gangs running wild through the streets, ransacking shops and fighting over food with machetes.

Learning this, many an ignorant westerner might naively say, "That could only happen in Haiti. It's because those people are so poor, so uncivilized. It could never happen here..."

Oh but it could.

Haiti isn't so different from wherever you live -- a city in America, Canada, Australia, the UK or anywhere else. Everywhere in the world, people will fight for survival when the situation becomes desperate. The only reason the streets in your town aren't overrun with firearms and machetes right now is because food is plentiful. The electricity works. The water supply is functioning and police keep the relatively few criminals under control.

Article continues ...

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 15 Jan 2010, 06:50

kenneal wrote:I would agree that the World Bank globalisation model of getting people off subsistence farming and into towns to make them consumers is hugely problematic.

Indeed. That must rank alongside the discovery that coal burns as the most stupid thing ever.

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 15 Jan 2010, 08:40

Aurora wrote:The Haitians need food, clean water, search and rescue professionals and medical staff on the ground as soon as possible - not a lot to ask in the grand scheme of things.

Absolutely. Here is the DEC Haiti Earthquake Appeal: https://www.donate.bt.com/dec_form_hait ... m_id=HAITI

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 15 Jan 2010, 15:34

gangs armed with machetes running wild

http://wcbstv.com/national/haiti.earthq ... 27143.html

imagine easter island during their crash after going into overshoot, the long term result would be the same, mass die-off, cannibalism, war .

could another country come in and change that do you feel your the father and their the children, as the Somali I was working with thought .

haiti has a very bloody history they partly got their independence by a revolution where they killed every white person they could find and had as their flag a impaled white baby on a pike, so I'm not really sure how well paternalism is going to work in haiti .

I think they would be better off coming up with their own solutions .

The problem with even short term aid is the feeling of dependence it causes and if you give short term aid you may feel a obligation to give long term aid .

I can understand the reasoning about sending specialist search and rescue teams, but the American's seem to be now sending ground forces yes Haiti is a mess but the Haitians themselves could sort it out if they don't that would be up to them

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 15 Jan 2010, 16:45

gangs armed with machetes running wild

Just a normal day in Haiti ... nothing to do with the earthquake.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 15 Jan 2010, 16:59

jonny2mad wrote:gangs armed with machetes running wild

http://wcbstv.com/national/haiti.earthq ... 27143.html

imagine easter island during their crash after going into overshoot, the long term result would be the same, mass die-off, cannibalism, war .

could another country come in and change that do you feel your the father and their the children, as the Somali I was working with thought .

haiti has a very bloody history they partly got their independence by a revolution where they killed every white person they could find and had as their flag a impaled white baby on a pike, so I'm not really sure how well paternalism is going to work in haiti .

I think they would be better off coming up with their own solutions .

The problem with even short term aid is the feeling of dependence it causes and if you give short term aid you may feel a obligation to give long term aid .

I can understand the reasoning about sending specialist search and rescue teams, but the American's seem to be now sending ground forces yes Haiti is a mess but the Haitians themselves could sort it out if they don't that would be up to them

jonny,

I can't argue with some of your logic, but your take on life is harsh in the extreme. In our world of obscene wealth and obscene poverty, surely we (the winners in the capitalist world) can find some compassion and lend a hand at this moment of terrible suffering.

If we can afford dog grooming clinics, we can afford a few water treatment tablets.
If we can afford gold bath taps, we can afford a tent.
If we can afford jimmy choos, we can afford a blanket.

With regard to your Somali friend, I understand that one of the main reasons quoted for their fishermen turning to piracy is that western fishing fleets have come in and decimated their livelihoods......... I'm not saying that is the case in his situation, but imo western corporations are the root cause behind much of the economic migration we see around the world today.