Labour to put high-speed rail link in manifesto

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 23 Nov 2009, 18:44

High speed trains use as much fuel as short haul planes do but they don't put it in such a bad place.

It's about time that the International Agreement on not taxing aviation fuel was repealed and VAT slapped on the stuff. That would stop short haul flying.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 23 Nov 2009, 18:51

You just wanted to see the magic number 2500 pop up in your Total Posts Count didn't you?

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 23 Nov 2009, 20:51

Vortex wrote:You just wanted to see the magic number 2500 pop up in your Total Posts Count didn't you?

Think I'll have to try that. I'm struggling to improve on my 18th place in the top posters chart

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 24 Nov 2009, 02:49

Vortex wrote:You just wanted to see the magic number 2500 pop up in your Total Posts Count didn't you?

To be honest, Vortex, I hadn't noticed until you pointed it out and by that time it was 2501.

goslow · Post by **goslow** » 24 Nov 2009, 09:40

the VAT idea doesn't work as most short haul fliers are business people, so they just claim it back on their VAT returns.

Air passenger duty is applicable to everyone. Just that at the moment this is levied in proportion with the length of flight. A flat rate across the board would make the short haul flights pay more, and this is fair as there are practical alternatives compared to the long haulers. As well as the fact that short haul has a high "mpg" due to spending more % of the flight time in the ascent/descent, which uses more fuel than cruising.

Post by **clv101** » 24 Nov 2009, 09:45

goslow wrote:the VAT idea doesn't work as most short haul fliers are business people, so they just claim it back on their VAT returns.

Air passenger duty is applicable to everyone. Just that at the moment this is levied in proportion with the length of flight. A flat rate across the board would make the short haul flights pay more, and this is fair as there are practical alternatives compared to the long haulers. As well as the fact that short haul has a high "mpg" due to spending more % of the flight time in the ascent/descent, which uses more fuel than cruising.

Most? I have a hard time believing that, from my personal experience I don't think most short haul is business.

Adding VAT to aviation fuel would increase the price that business travellers have to pay. The actual price of the ticket would be higher. When I take a taxi when travelling on business my company has to pay the VAT on the fuel used, no? The taxi driver has to pay it so passes the cost on to his customer.

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 24 Nov 2009, 11:42

eatyourveg wrote:
Vortex wrote:Totnes needs no steenking railway ... it needs isolation.

It is, after all, going to be The Final Redoubt when the mutant zombie hoards sweep the land.
Ha ha. It won't take the zombie hoardes from all over the land, just those from Paignton should do it as they flee their houses sliding into the sea.

Edut: For 'hoardes' read 'hordes'. Don't need the spillchick brigade chasing me 2.

A couple of reflexology sessions and a bit of therapy from the many local purveyors will soon calm the 'sean-of-the-dead' haords from much maligned Paignton. If that doesn't work, we'll overwhelm them with the sheer weight of our good karma. Actually, I think personally that they will head for Newton Abbot, then on to north Devon and up to Evesham. There are far richer pickings for them up there.

More seriously, if reconnecting the two lines between Oakhampton and Tavistock is cheaper and simpler, maybe that is what will happen. Or maybe they'll just run a replacement bus service from Exeter to Newton Abbot.

Post by **adam2** » 25 Nov 2009, 13:31

fifthcolumn wrote:Why do these dickheads go on about the big sexy projects when what needs to be solved is the last ten miles?

It drives me to despair.

It's the last ten miles that is most heavily dependent on oil and this won't be solved by a high speed rail link.

What we need is more cycle lanes, more electric short range train lines, more tram lines, more electric buses and more electric trucks.

Agree, long distance rail links could certainly be improved by the use of longer trains and somwhat higher speeds, but the final few miles are very important and much neglected.

Tomorow I will travel from work in central London to Minehead in the west country.
From work to Paddington station is easy, by bus or underground, or if burdened by bulky luggage, by taxi.
From Paddington to Taunton is easy though shockingly expensive. Trains run roughly once an hour, and take about 2 hours.
Being old trains these have good legroom, luggage space, and even a restaurant

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=70

However from Taunton to Minehead is an extremly slow bus journey, the bus seldom connects with the train, and often one can not board the first few buses due to overcrowding.
The alternative is a taxi at over £50.
On a bad day, it can take longer from Taunton to Minehead, than from London to Taunton !.
Not much point in spending billions on saving a few minutes on the main line.
And there is a servicable railway line between Taunton and Minehead ! But it sees only limited use.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 25 Nov 2009, 17:42

adam2 wrote:However from Taunton to Minehead is an extremly slow bus journey, the bus seldom connects with the train, and often one can not board the first few buses due to overcrowding.
The alternative is a taxi at over £50.

If you joined West Somerset LETS Group, maybe you could arrange a lift for a fraction of the taxi fare

. I got two grazed knees trying (and failing) to connect with a bus when I got off the train in Taunton once

.

johnathome · Post by **johnathome** » 25 Nov 2009, 21:15

well building ANY train lines has got to be a good thing! Beeching has a lot to answer for. Short sighted ****!

I take the train whenever i go to London, wouldn't do anything else. It's so easy and stress free, although i am talking about 'off peak'. I understand it's a bit of a nightmare when taking trains before 9am.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 25 Nov 2009, 23:14

Last week I discovered that Grand Central give free tea/coffee, and it's only £35 from York to London, and they've managed (just) to get it down to below 2 hours.

The trouble with moving that precarious bit of coastal line in Devon is, it's so beautiful it's kind of become a tourist draw in its own right.

Post by **clv101** » 25 Nov 2009, 23:17

RenewableCandy wrote:Last week I discovered that Grand Central give free tea/coffee, and it's only £35 from York to London, and they've managed (just) to get it down to below 2 hours.

The trouble with moving that precarious bit of coastal line in Devon is, it's so beautiful it's kind of become a tourist draw in its own right.

I lived in York from 1996 to 2000, I recall the London train was 1hr 58min... Soon after I left I think it went over 2hr, to improve reliability!

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 06 Jan 2010, 14:09

High-speed London rail link moves step closer:
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... tep_closer

With some readers views from the Greater Manchester public.....

madibe · Post by **madibe** » 06 Jan 2010, 17:29

ken, can you say that again?

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 06 Jan 2010, 17:56

maudibe wrote:ken, can you say that again?

No! There aren't enough hours in the day!