Folks, I have 3 (almost) grown up sons and of course I want to do my best for them. But I have tried not to over-burden them with Peak Oil/Peak Everything messages. They have a right to enjoy their teenage years and young adulthood the way I did.
Number 1 works in a restaurant kitchen, while he meanders along not knowing what he wants to do, number 2 is doing a degree in German and Business - about to start his year out in Germany. Number 3 is doing his GCSEs this year.
Apart from the usual down-to-earth advice a father tries to pass on to his kids, I think the time is here to go for a beer (one at a time) and let them know what is likely to be coming. I find this a bit upsetting, but don't think I can delay it any more.
Can I ask for your opinions and what you think I would be best to advise them. (I plan to tailor the advise for each one - as they are all different, but thankfully are all intelligent.)
PS. I know this is very personal, but there are so many sensible, astute people on here that I value your thoughts on this most important matter very much.
Advice for my grown-up sons
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Advice for my grown-up sons
Real money is gold and silver
I don't know. I was a studious and generally well behaved lad. My dad was caring but over protective. From 18 to 22 I wanted as little as possible to do with him, simply because I wanted to make my own decisions in life.
I remember him pestering me to get a pension throughout my 20s. That set me against it, and now I know that in his world view he was right, but that a pension from my 20s would have been money down the drain.
( I now have a company pension, but I expect very little if anything to come out of it. My attitude now is that I and my family must be my pension).
I would tell them, but give them the evidence and let them make up their own minds. Answer questions but be humble.
I remember him pestering me to get a pension throughout my 20s. That set me against it, and now I know that in his world view he was right, but that a pension from my 20s would have been money down the drain.
( I now have a company pension, but I expect very little if anything to come out of it. My attitude now is that I and my family must be my pension).
I would tell them, but give them the evidence and let them make up their own minds. Answer questions but be humble.
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adam2
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I would stress that we face "an uncertain future" that is less depressing than forcasting TEOTWAWKI.
Stress to your sons, the importance of being prepared for an uncertain future.
Learning useful skills, possesing tools and knowing how to use them, keeping stocks of food, fuel and other supplies.
Perhaps point out that the sheeple are not prepared even for bad weather and industrial disputes, let alone anything more serious.
Debt should be avoided if at all possible, modest savings are a sensible prep for an uncertain future, but owing to the risks of inflation, devaluation and bank runs, large savings are a bit risky.
Consider leisure and outdoor activities that teach useful skills.
Visits to C.A.T. perhaps for hands on experience re renewable energy.
Familiarity with fire arms could be useful, what about clay pigeon shooting, or rifle practice at a club ?
Stress to your sons, the importance of being prepared for an uncertain future.
Learning useful skills, possesing tools and knowing how to use them, keeping stocks of food, fuel and other supplies.
Perhaps point out that the sheeple are not prepared even for bad weather and industrial disputes, let alone anything more serious.
Debt should be avoided if at all possible, modest savings are a sensible prep for an uncertain future, but owing to the risks of inflation, devaluation and bank runs, large savings are a bit risky.
Consider leisure and outdoor activities that teach useful skills.
Visits to C.A.T. perhaps for hands on experience re renewable energy.
Familiarity with fire arms could be useful, what about clay pigeon shooting, or rifle practice at a club ?
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
I have the same reservations as you Snow. I have also kept the peak thing to myself, although they have not failed to notice that the house has had a radical energy makeover.
At the moment the eldest girl is starting third year law and the youngest waiting for her GCSE’S on Thursday.
My opinion for what its worth, is just to let them enjoy their lives without burdening them with the sort of stuff we worry about. They will soon be faced with a different (but not necessarily difficult) lifestyle. I think it is our job to quietly get on and prepare for the market shocks. A small example is the fuel prices spikes, the youngest came back from horse riding a while back and told us that her instructor had turned the heating down in her house during the cold spell and also rationed her daughter to 1 min showers to save gas, as her gas bill had gone from £89 per month to £180 per month. My daughter asked what our bill was like and we explained that our bill had gone down by 80%. We then explained how we had done it and all the stuff which had been installed and she said ‘’ cool’’
I don’t think she will pay high fuel bills in the future, because she now associates a solar panel with unlimited showers. I don’t think she would have internalised fossil fuel depletion any quicker if I had recited the club of Rome ad nauseum.
I should imagine you will be surprised just how much your lads have picked up indirectly from you.
In any case I would not worry that much about it, strong family units have always survived and prospered.
All you can do is gently guide, if they do not take your advice you will always be there in case anything goes wrong. That will be a bigger benefit than all the warnings of doom you can give.
At the moment the eldest girl is starting third year law and the youngest waiting for her GCSE’S on Thursday.
My opinion for what its worth, is just to let them enjoy their lives without burdening them with the sort of stuff we worry about. They will soon be faced with a different (but not necessarily difficult) lifestyle. I think it is our job to quietly get on and prepare for the market shocks. A small example is the fuel prices spikes, the youngest came back from horse riding a while back and told us that her instructor had turned the heating down in her house during the cold spell and also rationed her daughter to 1 min showers to save gas, as her gas bill had gone from £89 per month to £180 per month. My daughter asked what our bill was like and we explained that our bill had gone down by 80%. We then explained how we had done it and all the stuff which had been installed and she said ‘’ cool’’
I don’t think she will pay high fuel bills in the future, because she now associates a solar panel with unlimited showers. I don’t think she would have internalised fossil fuel depletion any quicker if I had recited the club of Rome ad nauseum.
I should imagine you will be surprised just how much your lads have picked up indirectly from you.
In any case I would not worry that much about it, strong family units have always survived and prospered.
All you can do is gently guide, if they do not take your advice you will always be there in case anything goes wrong. That will be a bigger benefit than all the warnings of doom you can give.
I was not attempting to censor the discussion, just to move it as it had become very much off-topic - jmb site admin
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SILVERHARP2
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Hedge your bets Snow , if you come across as being too certain they might just write off your views as being eccentric. I would keep it more general and explain that for various reasons they have been brought up in a global system that on the surface has been very "stable" until now. However looking forward the certainties of the past can no longer be relied on. Be it PO , Debt defaltion a bankrupt social welfare system. Self reliance in the general sense will be the name of the game.
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lancasterlad
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I agree with Stumutz. They will have indirectly picked a lot up from you already. You might be pleasantly surprised.
I've never preached at my three but I have told what I'm doing in my life and why so that they can ask questions. My eldest borrowed various books and DVD's off me and has watched various programmes about farming and food without me having to 'force feed' him.
Your lifestyle example and choices will have no doubt sown seeds.
I've never preached at my three but I have told what I'm doing in my life and why so that they can ask questions. My eldest borrowed various books and DVD's off me and has watched various programmes about farming and food without me having to 'force feed' him.
Your lifestyle example and choices will have no doubt sown seeds.
Lancaster Lad
Who turned the lights off?
Who turned the lights off?
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fifthcolumn
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Snow hope,
I know you and I don't agree on some things but I'll offer my 2p.
I don't expect you to agree with my position but I do think you should at least hear it before you go for the pints.
My two boys are much younger than yours (7 and 10).
Both of them know way too much about peak oil.
Knowing what I know, the chances of things going to shit in the city I came from are far too high for my sense of comfort. I made tons of money back home compared to most people (over a hundred K a year) but I felt that my preparations, rather than help me, simply made me a target. So I concluded that if everything was going to go to shit back home, my boys would be better off in someplace that was likely to hold it together longer.
We left everyone behind to move out here and it has been very hard for them emotionally to try to settle in.
My position is that I have done what I could. The world will roll on regardless of what I do and whether my two boys know or not.
My little guy knows way too much and I am afraid he's terrified.
My older guy doesn't bother at school because he thinks it's pointless.
My wife hates my guts because I ripped her up from her family and friends and she sees the effect it's had on the two boys.
I still honestly don't know what else I could have done in terms of protecting them as best I can but it's come at a great cost.
If I'm wrong about the future course of things and it goes as bad as many people on here (including you?) think then at least they will be prepared.
What, however, if my more optimistic scenario is right?
I grew up in thatcher's britain. Things are likely to be worse than that but not much if I'm right.
In this case I believe they would have been better off not knowing.
Certainly my wife believes this.
The horror I am facing is that there is a distinct possibility that if things *don't* collapse within five years or so, my wife might pick up the kids and move back and THEN things collapse.
So: be careful with the truth my friend. Telling it may have unintended consequences.
I know you and I don't agree on some things but I'll offer my 2p.
I don't expect you to agree with my position but I do think you should at least hear it before you go for the pints.
My two boys are much younger than yours (7 and 10).
Both of them know way too much about peak oil.
Knowing what I know, the chances of things going to shit in the city I came from are far too high for my sense of comfort. I made tons of money back home compared to most people (over a hundred K a year) but I felt that my preparations, rather than help me, simply made me a target. So I concluded that if everything was going to go to shit back home, my boys would be better off in someplace that was likely to hold it together longer.
We left everyone behind to move out here and it has been very hard for them emotionally to try to settle in.
My position is that I have done what I could. The world will roll on regardless of what I do and whether my two boys know or not.
My little guy knows way too much and I am afraid he's terrified.
My older guy doesn't bother at school because he thinks it's pointless.
My wife hates my guts because I ripped her up from her family and friends and she sees the effect it's had on the two boys.
I still honestly don't know what else I could have done in terms of protecting them as best I can but it's come at a great cost.
If I'm wrong about the future course of things and it goes as bad as many people on here (including you?) think then at least they will be prepared.
What, however, if my more optimistic scenario is right?
I grew up in thatcher's britain. Things are likely to be worse than that but not much if I'm right.
In this case I believe they would have been better off not knowing.
Certainly my wife believes this.
The horror I am facing is that there is a distinct possibility that if things *don't* collapse within five years or so, my wife might pick up the kids and move back and THEN things collapse.
So: be careful with the truth my friend. Telling it may have unintended consequences.
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kenneal - lagger
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Hi! Snow
My two girls have been bought up all their lives preparing for now, although they didn't know it until recently. They just thought they have eccentric parents. The older one, nearly 30 and married, still lives with us and the younger one lives away, but only five miles, and is doing her own thing: off to do a ski season as a chalet girl while she can. The older one hasn't really wanted to talk about PO, CC and the economic crisis until recently but is now acknowledging it occasionally. She is doing the preparations by living here.
All you can do is tell them the facts, as you see them, and then let them make up their own minds. Your preps will show them your level of commitment to your beliefs and they will eventually take actions accordingly. You just have to be there for them and be ready to pick up the pieces if necessary.
Regards
Ken
My two girls have been bought up all their lives preparing for now, although they didn't know it until recently. They just thought they have eccentric parents. The older one, nearly 30 and married, still lives with us and the younger one lives away, but only five miles, and is doing her own thing: off to do a ski season as a chalet girl while she can. The older one hasn't really wanted to talk about PO, CC and the economic crisis until recently but is now acknowledging it occasionally. She is doing the preparations by living here.
All you can do is tell them the facts, as you see them, and then let them make up their own minds. Your preps will show them your level of commitment to your beliefs and they will eventually take actions accordingly. You just have to be there for them and be ready to pick up the pieces if necessary.
Regards
Ken
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Rather than sit them down and tell them something along the lines of, "the world is going to be f**ked", perhaps equip them with practical, hands-on skills, as well as a philosophy of "carpe diem", making the most of today since it won't necessarily be available tomorrow (e.g. there's a beach and campsite I used to be able to just turn up to, today, with so many more people around, I'd be lucky to even book it in advance). Perhaps you could take them on something like a bushcraft vacation or visit places like the CAT. As Ken says, doing your own preparations is going to rub off on them.
If son #1 is working towards being a chef, perhaps encourage him to explore cookery of "wild food" (game/foraging), for instance there are courses in which you'd shoot, butcher and cook a deer.
Do heed what 5th is saying; it can be very easy to demotivate people with this stuff, and a 5-year boom period, no matter how unlikely we think it will be, is still possible and could lead to resentment. Make sure you use words such as "may" rather than "will".
If son #1 is working towards being a chef, perhaps encourage him to explore cookery of "wild food" (game/foraging), for instance there are courses in which you'd shoot, butcher and cook a deer.
Do heed what 5th is saying; it can be very easy to demotivate people with this stuff, and a 5-year boom period, no matter how unlikely we think it will be, is still possible and could lead to resentment. Make sure you use words such as "may" rather than "will".
Olduvai Theory (Updated) (Reviewed)
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
I am not offering any advice here as I don't have children of my own, but I think I'd respect my parents more if they didn't muck about with talk like "We're preparing just in case." 
I'd want to know the possible worst case scenarios.
I don't mean to disparage anyone's concern for their children, but most people here are referring to offspring in their 20s - I mean really, these are not children, they are adults, aren't they? (I know these days few people in their 20s actually behave like adults, but in my view that's their problem.) Part of being an adult is accepting that life is largely a pile of sh*t!
I'd want to know the possible worst case scenarios.I don't mean to disparage anyone's concern for their children, but most people here are referring to offspring in their 20s - I mean really, these are not children, they are adults, aren't they? (I know these days few people in their 20s actually behave like adults, but in my view that's their problem.) Part of being an adult is accepting that life is largely a pile of sh*t!
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
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fifthcolumn
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kenneal - lagger
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Your children are always your children, Ludwig, even when they grow up. You can't tell them what to do but you can be there for them when they ask for help or advice when they find out life is a bucket of sh*t.Ludwig wrote:I don't mean to disparage anyone's concern for their children, but most people here are referring to offspring in their 20s -
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
FC, your decision was a very severe one, I hedge my bets more than you. But I sympathise very much with your position, it must have been a very difficult decision, personally I think I would have tried to move to a safer place in England first of all, but you know what is right for your situation.
When I first told my middle son (now at uni) about Peak Oil, a couple of months before his GCSEs, his response was "what is the point of studying any more" - which shocked me and taught me a lesson - I needed to ease back on the message! My boys know the basics about Peak Oil, but I do not discuss it too often. As others have said they can see some things from my preparations - wood store, veg garden, insulation, hybrid car, interest in renewable energy, etc.
I do think things will get bad FC. How bad? I have no real idea. But I think it appropriate to prepare for things being substantially different to normal. I think "normal" will not exist soon. My veg garden is my mitigation strategy for supermarket shelves going empty and I have some food stocks and a plan I can put in place as soon as TSHTF to substantially boost my food stock at very short notice.
I will not spell out TEOTWAWKI to the boys, but concentrate on how things are going to be uncertain and likely to change for the worst. Debt to be avoided, concentrate on the basics, etc. To be honest messages that have already been mentioned over the last few years.
Thanks all!
When I first told my middle son (now at uni) about Peak Oil, a couple of months before his GCSEs, his response was "what is the point of studying any more" - which shocked me and taught me a lesson - I needed to ease back on the message! My boys know the basics about Peak Oil, but I do not discuss it too often. As others have said they can see some things from my preparations - wood store, veg garden, insulation, hybrid car, interest in renewable energy, etc.
I do think things will get bad FC. How bad? I have no real idea. But I think it appropriate to prepare for things being substantially different to normal. I think "normal" will not exist soon. My veg garden is my mitigation strategy for supermarket shelves going empty and I have some food stocks and a plan I can put in place as soon as TSHTF to substantially boost my food stock at very short notice.
I will not spell out TEOTWAWKI to the boys, but concentrate on how things are going to be uncertain and likely to change for the worst. Debt to be avoided, concentrate on the basics, etc. To be honest messages that have already been mentioned over the last few years.
Thanks all!
Real money is gold and silver