Chu and Obama know

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SunnyJim
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Post by SunnyJim »

I think they know! David Miliband knows. I read it in a transcript of a speach he gave to Cambridge Uni. I think Ed Miliband's recent paper is a PO mitigation plan in disguise.

However, faced with that knowledge you have a very difficult hand to play. Obviously as we lose the might that a monopoly on fossil fuels has bought us, we leave our nation open to exploitation from other nations. The trick is to reduce your dependency on oil, while not reducing your economic might and ability to use oil in order to gain economic might. It's a tight rope that any UK goverment will have to walk. We don't want to simply ditch oil, and start living in mud huts tomorrow, or we will pretty quickly find ourselves at the mercy of other nations. We already will be at the mercy of other nations to a great and greater extent as the north sea winds down.

War does not happen between 'civilised' nations any more, because it is an expensive waste of time, money and energy. It is also unpopular with voters. The same can be achieved through the markets and the might of an economy. Wars are waged in the currency and commodity markets rather than on the battle field.

Really there are only two paths that the goverment can follow that I can think of (I haven't spent much time thinking about this. Perhaps I will);

a) become entirely self sufficient in a very short space of time - a massive effort. - YOu would need to maintain enough oil reserves and machinary to defend the realm from the later stages of the wind down, when markets fail and wars begin again.
b) Maintain relative economic might and ensure (via markets e.g. the carbon credits markets) that you can force other to give up fossil fuels at the same or at a faster rate than you. They have to sell oil, in order to buy credits to burn oil. Or they get isolated economically and starve. Following this path it would one assumes be easier to ensure stocks of oil and machinery in order to defend the realm when markets collapse and wars begin again.

As alluded to in the OP, admission of PO may cause a complete collapse of fiat currency and markets would become dysfunctional very quickly. However, a precedent has been set. The banks will be kept alive with tax payers money in order to ensure that we can wage war and secure oil, food and mineral resources via the markets, rather than having to spend hugely on resource grabbing or controlling wars such as Iraq and Afganistan. I think the UK goverment will go down route b) above. They will also try to make the UK more self sufficient as that will be needed after the global markets break down.

Welcome back MacG. I've just bought the black swan on your age old recomendation, but have 'The end of food' and 'Forest Gardens' to read first! :wink:
Jim

For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Interesting comments. I happen to think that Miliband and co are genuine in thinking that climate change is the biggest threat facing the UK, and isn't some kind of ruse to get us preparing for PO.

Having said that, I suspect that the securocrats in MI6/MI5/military who decide the long-term strategic plans for UK plc are focused on PO.

This gives a insight in the behind-the-scenes thinking of the COBRA permament establishment...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 673612.ece

"If a security breakdown occurred, he said, it was likely to be brought on by environmental destruction and a population boom, coupled with technology and radical Islam. The result for Britain and Europe, Parry warned, could be "like the 5th century Roman empire facing the Goths and the Vandals"."

Parry, based in Shrivenham, Wiltshire, presented his vision at the Royal United Services Institute in central London. He identified the most dangerous flashpoints by overlaying maps showing the regions most threatened by factors such as agricultural decline, booming youth populations, water shortages, rising sea levels and radical Islam.

Parry predicts that as flood or starvation strikes, the most dangerous zones will be Africa, particularly the northern half; most of the Middle East and central Asia as far as northern China; a strip from Nepal to Indonesia; and perhaps eastern China.

He pinpoints 2012 to 2018 as the time when the current global power structure is likely to crumble. Rising nations such as China, India, Brazil and Iran will challenge America’s sole superpower status.

This will come as "irregular activity" such as terrorism, organised crime and "white companies" of mercenaries burgeon in lawless areas.

The effects will be magnified as borders become more porous and some areas sink beyond effective government control.

Parry expects the world population to grow to about 8.4 billion in 2035, compared with 6.4 billion today. By then some 68% of the population will be urban, with some giant metropolises becoming ungovernable. He warns that Mexico City could be an example"

So, to put it bluntly, although he doesn't mention PO directly, clearly the PTB are aware of depletion and the potential for resource wars. I suspect that "they" are waiting for Cameron and his ilk to take over and they will start implementing once there is a crisis some of the plans that are on the drawing board. I imagine that some of the following are coming...

rationing of fuel

use of military on domestic soil for as mentioned by General Dannet

start focusing on Islamfied Muslin enclaves in the midlands using army

back-to-land farming programme for the growing unenployed young (which is a social timebomb)

establishment of strategic zones which will be based on non-fossil power to becomes bases in worst-case oil starvation schenarios.
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

Beria3 wrote:Interesting comments. I happen to think that Miliband and co are genuine in thinking that climate change is the biggest threat facing the UK, and isn't some kind of ruse to get us preparing for PO.
I'm not so sure. David Miliband gave a speech a couple of years ago... It was about "low carbon" but it didn't take much reading between the lines to interpret energy security and specifically oil as the key motivator.
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Maybe, difficult to tell as the solutions to both are virtually the same. Does it actually matter? Miliband may be starting to get it (i know he has been talking to the Transition lot) but i very much doubt that Brown does.
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SunnyJim
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Post by SunnyJim »

You didn't have to read between the lines very much Chris. The title was 'The Transition Economy - a future beyond oil?'!

Unfortunately the text has been removed from the defra site, but the audio is still availiable;

http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2007030602

Of course as we've established, Brown CANNOT be seen to be PO savvy for the sake of the pound, the banks and the markets.

He may not acknowledge it in the open, but David Miliband is savvy and has a very key job as foreign secretary. Ed Miliband has produced a PO mitigation plan in the transition to a low-carbon economy white paper. What more do you want?

Transition seems to be the nod to the PO inspired transition town movement that plays down the CC story and shows a focus on PO and low carbon transition rather than simply mitigation of CO2 emissions.
Jim

For every complex problem, there is a simple answer, and it's wrong.

"Heaven and earth are ruthless, and treat the myriad creatures as straw dogs" (Lao Tzu V.i).
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Ludwig
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Post by Ludwig »

revdode wrote:I'm sure alcohol suppresses serotonin which I read increases our ability to perceive patterns in information (reality is information to your brain) even when it's not there.
... or when they (the patterns - get yer grammar right :) ) are there. Dylan Thomas could only write poetry when he was drunk.
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
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