Swine flu vaccinations to be compulsory?

[Ludwig]

"The WHO has refused to release the Minutes of a key meeting of an advisory vaccine group – packed with executives from Baxter, Novartis and Sanofi – that recommended compulsory vaccinations in the USA, Europe and other countries against the artificial H1N1 “swine flu” virus this autumn. In an email this morning, a WHO spokesperson claimed there are no Minutes of the meeting that took place on July 7th in which guidelines on the need for worldwide vaccinations that WHO adopted this Monday were formulated and in which Baxter and other pharma executives participated."

From:

http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/07/ ... the-story/

I admit the phrase "artificial H1N1 ... virus" set the alarm bells ringing (not because I don't have my suspicions, but because it doesn't provide sources). However, the facts appear to be there: governments want compulsory vaccinations, and there are no minutes of the meeting where this was discussed.

Less emotive, and therefore easier to take seriously, is this:

http://theconsciousnessrevolution.wordp ... he-corner/

Only time will tell if I'm right, but I'm starting to suspect that the depopulation programme, publicly advocated by organisations such as PNAC, is well under way, and that PO preparations may prove unnecessary.

[Vortex]

Have I entered an Alternative Reality via my browser?

I can't think of any other explanation.

[RenewableCandy]

If it's depopulating, who's doing it? The people who developed H1N1 or the people who want us all to have the "vaccine"? /[:tinhat:]

[Vortex]

5000 posts???? Eek ....

[biffvernon]

Have I entered an Alternative Reality via my browser?

I can't think of any other explanation.

No, it's just Ludwig.

And congratulations on the 5000! I'm only 607 behind, closely follwed by the Renewable Candy.

[snow hope]

Have I entered an Alternative Reality via my browser?

I can't think of any other explanation.

Yes, it is scary. But sometimes you have to think outside the box....

It is a shocking thought, but I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought of it before..... in fact I mentioned it as my worst fear on here some time back I think.

There are serious concerns about the Baxter incident and it seems to have been all swept under the carpet - with such a serious leak (of H5N1) it makes on wonder what the hell is going on. I have seen reference to this from a number of different sources on the Internet.

There was also been various references to a significant number of micro-biologists having fatal accidents in the last few years...... things seem to be adding up in a very worrying way - no smoke without fire etc......

It is getting so hard to know what is true or false in these strange times....

[Ludwig]

If it's depopulating, who's doing it? The people who developed H1N1 or the people who want us all to have the "vaccine"? /[:tinhat:]

I'm not making any claims to omniscience. I simply don't buy the idea that all people in the know are running around clueless hoping they pull through.

It does not seem to me beyond the realms of possibility - because it is human nature - that people with power and influence will be making preparations for a world that can't support more than 2 billion people.

I don't understand why so many people seem to think this undermines some kind of natural law. I really don't: it mystifies me.

I can only put it down to the complacency that affluence has bred. Our cushy, affluent lifestyles can easily give the impression that all power structures have been eradicated from Western society. I have read much sober, well-reasoned material that convinces me this is not true. (Check out "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" for example, written by a bloke whose job it was to plan bankruptcy of nations with natural resources the US wanted. DON'T YOU DARE tell me this is untrue without reading the book.)

Until I knew about Peak Oil, I would not have entertained such ideas as credible - although I make a point of not ridiculing those who believe things different to me, because unlike you and Vortex I have the humility to accept that they might know things I don't.

As I mentioned, PNAC, when it existed, publicly declared the goal of population reduction to be desirable in its official documentation. And PNAC, in case you don't know, was not an obscure organisation, but counted dozens of the most influential people in American politics, business and industry among its members, including Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and many other notable Neocons.

If you dispute that fact, do some research rather than shower me with your smug smart alec accusations of tinfoil hattery.

My working expectation is that there will be a pandemic of some sort in the next 5 years that wipes out a good proportion of the world's population. I have been wrong about many things in the past, and of course I may be wrong about this. As things stand, I think a lot of things point to it. One thing that won't change my mind is being told I'm a loony by people who, even though they won't admit it, make clear in their statements their subconscious belief that the coming years are going to be merely some variation on business as usual.

As I said, history will show whether I'm right or wrong, nothing else, so piss off.

[gug]

Yes, You should very definitely trust Big Pharma with your health.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaokq8v9JPI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rS4uyCaLBg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnSX_jS0STA

They can try and vaccinate me by force if they like.

[Ludwig]

They can try and vaccinate me by force if they like.

Same here. It will be interesting to see what lengths they will go to to get people done.

Something just smells of fish about the whole thing to me. Why is this apparently very mild viral outbreak (assuming it IS an outbreak - I don't know anyone who's had it) being proposed as a reason to force Westerners to be vaccinated for the first time in history? And with a vaccine that will have been tested for 5 DAYS?

It puzzles me that the same people who say, "All world events are just random, there are no plans" will happily say, regarding a flu vaccination that's been tested for 5 days and produced by a company with an astonishingly poor record for quality control, "I'm sure they know what they're doing."

[revdode]

It puzzles me that the same people who say, "All world events are just random, there are no plans" will happily say

There is some distance between all world events are random and all world events are planned. I think something close to reality is somewhere in that space. Business. government and special interest groups (thats most of us folks) are ruthless at using random events to promote their interests, it's ugly but its visible in almost every news story and the comment that goes with it. It doesn't need a big conspiracy for bad stuff to happen.

I've followed the links supplied and can find lots of dots, some very blurry, but nothing other than opinion and prejudice to join them up. Most of the reports read like the writings of the raving end of the anti-MMR campaigners. I think you mistake others reading of this information and the judgments they make with naive trust in big pharma, government and "power structures". I believe the above mentioned groups regularly try to manipulate us but on the balance of evidence so far I don't buy this story. However if someone offers me or my family a swine flu vaccine after five days testings on the balance of risks I think I will decline.

[Joules]

I think I'll take my chances without the vaccine too:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mh9f ... nda_webcam

[Ludwig]

It puzzles me that the same people who say, "All world events are just random, there are no plans" will happily say

There is some distance between all world events are random and all world events are planned. I think something close to reality is somewhere in that space. Business. government and special interest groups (thats most of us folks) are ruthless at using random events to promote their interests, it's ugly but its visible in almost every news story and the comment that goes with it. It doesn't need a big conspiracy for bad stuff to happen.

Firstly, thanks for the reasoned reply. (I don't mind being disagreed with, I just wish when people disagreed they'd give counterarguments rather than imagine I will be convinced by being called a nutter.)

I completely agree that, in general, the truth lies between the chaos and the conspiracy theories. History suggests, however, that within that range it veers a lot one way or the other. I mean, are there people here who doubt that over the last 5 decades the CIA has been up to its neck in the internal affairs of South America, to the extent of trying to foment revolution or help assassinate democratically elected leaders? As far as I can tell the only reason for doubting it is not knowing about it - and it's true that an alarmingly large number of people take the attitude, "I hadn't heard of that, so it can't be true".

I don't KNOW that there is anything fishy about swine flu, and maybe there isn't; it's just that the disparity between the media coverage and the apparent actuality makes me feel that something doesn't add up. Above all, it was the enforced vaccination that made me suspicious: it just doesn't "feel" normal.

In America there IS a network of politicians, security agencies, bankers and corporate CEOs who together heavily influence - and under the Republicans, virtually control - US government policy. I do urge people to read John Perkins' "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man", in which the author describes the US system of government as a "corporatocracy". Perkins is not a conspiracy nut, he's a former insider.

In most countries, including Britain (and certainly inveterately corrupt countries like Italy and Russia) I imagine there is a similar network of interests, although I have not read as much about what goes on in Europe.

Anyhow none of this is actual evidence; it provides a backdrop against which the evidence can be considered. The evidence can be summarised as follows:
- Given current population levels, economic growth, the foundation of our socioeconomic structure, cannot continue past the point of Peak Oil. Mass unemployment and social unrest will be the consequences, which will need to be dealt with by forceful measures if society is not to collapse.
- Worse than this, the accelerating decline in oil supply following the peak will lead much of the world's population into starvation and disease. Don't forget that oil isn't just used for transport, but also for fertilisers, farm mechanisation and pesticides. Starvation is among the messiest and most socially dangerous ways imaginable to depopulate the world, but absent an alternative, it is how most people will go.
- Influential figures in American (mostly Republican) politics and business, under the umbrella of PNAC, have publicly advocated the depopulation of the world to at most 2 billion people. The document that advocated this was easy to find on the Internet until recently.
- Between 2001 and 2004, 14 world-class biologists specialising in genetic sequencing and virology died in accidents or "committed suicide". Last year 2 bright young biologists were brutally murdered in London. There may well be more incidents but Web sites collating them haven't updated their reports over the past 5 years.
- The WHO and the media have been going out of their way to assure us that there WILL be a pandemic in the nearish future.
- The Patriot II Act in the US makes vaccine makers immune from lawsuits.

My hypothesis - and I emphasise that it is a HYPOTHESIS, not a theory, for those who know the difference - is that at some point each senior politician and businessperson will have been, or will be, taken aside and told, "Because of Peak Oil, two thirds of the world's population is going to have to die soon, and there's a plan afoot to get rid of them the easy way. Do you want in, or out? Either way, mention any of this, and you and your family are toast." You wouldn't need to be particularly evil, I don't think, to want in.

There is a large amount of evidence of clandestine genetically targeted bioweapons programmes, and there is a large amount of evidence that people who threaten to spill the beans about them are being silenced, by more or less brutal means. (The thing that first made me trust my hunches was when I guessed in advance that the 2 French students butchered in London were biologists.)

I'm not going to go back and try to find all the material that persuades me that this is a possible - I don't say probable - scenario. All I will say is that this material is enough to make me suspicious, no more.

[leroy]

Nice post Ludwig,

Whilst it is clear that we can all operate with an understanding of the dire situation that we are in and still live in the everyday world (is that called pollyanaism?) I think that is naive to think that the people who constitute the world's intelligence agencies (pretty bloody-minded folk I would assume) are without ideas as to how to directly meet the manifest overpopulation.

The concept that governments haven't considered ways of addressing the underlying problem of overpopulation by reducing the numbers of people in other parts of the world seems unlikely. It also seems unlikely that they haven't at least started to make plans yet.

[JonB]

I think some people have been watching too much telly.

http://stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/P3A-194



For the record, I am a microbiologist, and know people
dealing with swine 'flu who are actually doing something useful.

[Ludwig]

Nice post Ludwig,

Whilst it is clear that we can all operate with an understanding of the dire situation that we are in and still live in the everyday world (is that called pollyanaism?)

Not quite... Pollyannaism is a kind of spineless, self-deluding optimism: "Oh dear, I've been paralysed from the head down in a road accident, but never mind, limbs only use up extra calories."

I think that is naive to think that the people who constitute the world's intelligence agencies (pretty bloody-minded folk I would assume) are without ideas as to how to directly meet the manifest overpopulation.

The concept that governments haven't considered ways of addressing the underlying problem of overpopulation by reducing the numbers of people in other parts of the world seems unlikely. It also seems unlikely that they haven't at least started to make plans yet.

Yes. And one can only speculate as to whether the plans extend to those governments' own populations. Thinning out the population uniformly across the world seems to me to make more sense than, say, emptying China and India. After all, we could be sure that China is ready to do exactly the same to us.

If I were a world leader I wouldn't be looking to annihilate my rivals but do a deal with them to get rid of a critical number of the world's "useless eaters". Pure speculation, of course, but not, in the circumstances, inconceivable.

As I've said, what will make me really suspicious is if the swine flu vaccination IS made compulsory. If my allegedly kooky hypothesis is correct, this may be a "trial run" for how the nation responds to compulsory vaccination.

Again, if my allegedly kooky hypothesis is correct, the question comes up as to whether, when the real killer virus, or apparent killer virus, comes along, getting vaccinated will be what saves you or kills you.

Anyhow I am starting to feel I would be more at home on LATOC, where more people seem to see beyond the confines of their own small worlds and experiences, and where there isn't this - to use that word - Pollyannaish belief that all we need to do in the face of PO is be a little greener and get our politicians to "see the light".