People paid for supplying power

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 12 Jul 2009, 06:35

BBC News - 12/07/09

Households that contribute electricity to the National Grid are to receive payments under a new government scheme.

Towns and villages will be encouraged to generate their own power with wind, water and solar energies, and then be paid for how much they produce.

Called clean energy cash-back, schemes already operate in 19 European countries including Germany.

Article continues ...

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 12 Jul 2009, 21:36

Well, it's a step in the right direction and certainly one way of getting around the Nimbies, but microgeneration cannot solve our energy problems on it's own.

This is probably a bit of wishful thinking but, here's hoping this is part of a combined energy strategy that will actually be implemented.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 Jul 2009, 21:56

Nothing will solve the problem on its own. We need lots of steps in the right direction. It will be great if Wednesday's energy white paper provides the incentive for me to convert my large south-facing roof into a pv collector. I've got well over a hundred square metres of suitable roof. That would be well worth feeding into the grid.

What makes me think I may be disappointed on Wednesday?

nnnnnn · Post by **nnnnnn** » 14 Jul 2009, 15:58

Wonder what is to stop me putting cardboard printouts of solar panels behind some glass on my roof and selling my neighbours grid power back to the grid at the higher rate . How would they know ?

Mr. Fox · Post by **Mr. Fox** » 19 Jul 2009, 05:40

I got sent this on Thursday:

The Government has announced yesterday the details of the proposed feed-in tariff for microgeneration from systems like small wind turbines and solar photovoltaics. The new tariff will pay for all energy generated by your system, irrespective of if you use it yourself or sell it back to the grid. The amounts paid are in addition to any saving you will make by purchasing less electricity from your supplier and any income you earn from selling your surplus power to your electricity supplier.

The key points of the announcement are:
- 36.5p/kWh for small solar photovoltaic systems up to 4kW and 28p/kWh for systems up to 10kW.
- 23.0p/kWh for small wind turbines between 1.5kW and 15kW.
- Replaces the current ROC system which pays 10p/kWh.
- Effective as of the 1st April 2010, but all systems commissioned from now on will qualify.
- Systems installed from now until April 2010 will be eligible for both LCBP grants AND the new tariff.

A typical home solar photovoltaic system of 3kW, generating approximately 2,300kWh per annum will therefore earn around £1,000 per annum, which is an additional £600, dramatically reducing payback times.

An Evance Iskra R9000 small wind turbine will typically earn £2,000 - £3,000 per annum which is an additional £1,000.

A Gaia 133 small wind turbine installed at a modestly windy site will earn £6,000 - £9,000 per annum which is an additional £3,000, making it a very economic proposition with likely payback times of less than 5 years on a typical site.

Basically, by bringing the 'payback times' of all technologies down to time periods that bean-counters can understand, the micro-renewables industry should go ballistic. Or rather, it would, if anyone had any money to invest in the first place!

tomhitchman · Post by **tomhitchman** » 19 Jul 2009, 09:42

I got that email too from segen, but was unable to find an official documents containing the figures. Anybody know the source please?

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 20 Jul 2009, 12:00

Do you HAVE to be grid tied to qualify? i.e. if I have an array of 5x300W turbines charging batteries, do I qualify, or do I need to be grid tied? How are the government going to measure generation? Via measurement (from goverment approved grid tie inverters?) or via overall system ratings?

Where can I find out the nitty gritties?

Post by **adam2** » 20 Jul 2009, 12:56

AFAIK no payment is made for stand alone battery based systems, the scheme refers only to grid tie.

In the past grid tied renewables often had only a single KWH meter that recorded net import or export.

These days the norm seems to be two meters, one of which records the total KWH produced renewably, the reading from this meter is used to calculate any subsidy payments.
This meter does not "know" if the renewable energy was exported into the grid, or used in the house, it simply records total production.

The other meter records the net inflow/outflow to/from the grid and is used to bill for or credit for the units imported to/from the grid.

The statement will therefore have three components

A credit payment for the amount of renewably generated power

A credit or debit for the net amount imported/exported to/from the grid

A fixed charge for metering and being connected to the grid.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 20 Jul 2009, 18:55

I hope the fixed charges don't go up if you're generating energy.

This all sounds very nice. I'd dust off my plans for a sun-roof here at Chateau Renewable if I had any money.

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 20 Jul 2009, 21:45

There's more on the proposed scheme here:

http://www.greenbuildingpress.co.uk/art ... cle_id=268

There's also this text that I received in an email. It is from a solar provider, which I guess, is hoping to get some business from the change. It summarises the changes quite nicely.

The new tariff will pay for all electricity generated by your system, irrespective of if you use it yourself or sell it back to the grid. The amounts paid are in addition to any saving you will make by purchasing less electricity from your supplier and any income you earn from selling your surplus power to your electricity supplier.
The key points of the announcement are:
- 36.5p/kWh for small solar photovoltaic systems up to 4kW and 28p/kWh for systems up to 10kW.
- 23.0p/kWh for small wind turbines between 1.5kW and 15kW.
- Replaces the current ROC system which pays 10p/kWh.
- Effective as of the 1st April 2010, but all systems commissioned from now on will qualify.
- Systems installed from now until April 2010 will be eligible for both LCBP grants AND the new tariff.
A typical home solar photovoltaic system of 3kW, generating approximately 2,300kWh per annum will therefore earn around £1,000 per annum, which is an additional £600, dramatically reducing payback times.
As fully accredited Microgeration Certification Scheme Installers, any photovoltaic system installed by SunGift Solar from today onwards will qualify for the feed-in tariff.
Following this announcement we are expecting a huge rise in demand so to ensure that you can make the most of the £2,500 LCBP grant currently available and the new feed-in tariff please contact us as soon as possible!

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 21 Jul 2009, 01:59

RGR wrote:You know, I like the local microgeneration idea quite a bit. I consider it quite a reasonable way to incentive-ize what is a completely reasonable overall energy solution.

Much like the idea that all politics is local, it strikes me as reasonable that quite a bit of energy production can and should be local, optimized to each areas strengths, allowing strong energy regions to export their excess to other areas, much like how oil is traded globally.

In the US, the desert southwest can be a solar powerhouse exporter to southern California, the coastal regions and the central plains have more wind than they know what to do with, winds and tides are plentiful along the coasts, nukes and hydro can be sprinkled liberally into areas with wind or solar disadvantages, and of course there is always the odd century or three of natural gas to use either as a stopgap, or, under a reduced supply scenario, a resource which can last a millennium for those places which just can't figure out what to do.

I agree completely, microgeneration has to be part of the solution and the feed-in tariffs are a great idea. Unfortunately, I don't fully trust governments (regardless of flavour/fervor) to manage to actually come up with and implement anything like a workable/practical, combined energy strategy until it's far too late. Fingers crossed I'm proved wrong, but I ain't holdin' my breath.

Reasonable for the US anyway, considering the dearth of natural resources in the UK, you guys are basically going to be hosed.

Yeah, cheers for that.

RGR · Post by **RGR** » 21 Jul 2009, 03:13

[quote="syberberg"]

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 21 Jul 2009, 18:00

RGR wrote:Of course, as an American I would volunteer that all the smart ones left centuries ago.

Did you hear about the Irishman who emigrated to the States? Raised the average IQ of both countries...

RGR · Post by **RGR** » 21 Jul 2009, 19:09

[quote="RenewableCandy"]

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 22 Jul 2009, 19:06

RGR wrote:the central plains have more wind than they know what to do with, winds and tides are plentiful along the coasts

How is Boone-Pickens getting on with his "biggest windfarm, in the world"?