Is it time to do the Political Compass test again?

[RenewableCandy]

Economic Left/Right: -8.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.13

I think I was -7.something, -6.something before, so gone further left economically. I blame the "Debt" video and that nice Mr Martenson...

[Ludwig]

I guess the survey is aimed at a US audience, and has a different measure of what the centre ground is.

If that were the case they'd have Gordon Brown and Barack Obama shifted over to the left; Americans view Democrats as being left wing (and "socialist" if they want to dish out the insults) yet over here they'd be a right-of-centre party.

Bit like New Labour then

[emordnilap]

Maybe it's not authoritarian, but it is plain dumb given the documented miscarriages that have happened.

There can be no death penalty without the state taking upon itself the authority to kill it's own citizens. There can be nothing more authoritarian.

The death penalty is pointless. It could only ever be brought back for the most serious offences - for people who currently have no hope of ever being released e.g. Fred West and Ians Huntley and Brady. The reason it is pointless is that such people, knowing they will never be released, actually want to die. Huntley has tried twice to commit suicide, Brady is force fed to stop him starving himself to death and West succeeded in killing himself. Just imagine being Ian Huntley. He can never so much as have a w**k without somebody watching him. He's already in hell. Why let him off the hook by killing him?

Totally agree. Even if someone is genuinely guilty of taking another's life, taking their life away brings you down to their level.

Gosh, it's quite difficult to think of something more authoritarian than giving oneself the right to take other's lives.

[Ludwig]

The death penalty is pointless. It could only ever be brought back for the most serious offences - for people who currently have no hope of ever being released e.g. Fred West and Ians Huntley and Brady. The reason it is pointless is that such people, knowing they will never be released, actually want to die. Huntley has tried twice to commit suicide, Brady is force fed to stop him starving himself to death and West succeeded in killing himself. Just imagine being Ian Huntley. He can never so much as have a w**k without somebody watching him. He's already in hell. Why let him off the hook by killing him?

A good point. I think there are counterarguments, however. Theoretically, killing people is cheaper than keeping them alive, although as we see in America in reality people are often kept alive indefinitely anyway.

Also, to most people, a life sentence doesn't SOUND as bad as dying, so it's arguably less of a deterrent.

There's also the issue of prison overcrowding, though you could argue that the more hellish our prisons become, the less time people will want to spend in them. Not that life outside prison promises to be particularly lovely, and at least in prison you get fed.

[Ludwig]

Totally agree. Even if someone is genuinely guilty of taking another's life, taking their life away brings you down to their level.

True I suppose, although I have to admit that seeing certain people dead would bring me considerable satisfaction

Gosh, it's quite difficult to think of something more authoritarian than giving oneself the right to take other's lives.

It's odd that only as our society has become more secular have we started taking seriously the commandment "Though shalt not kill". I imagine we see death as more horrific now that we don't believe in Heaven.

[emordnilap]

A random thought: I distinctly remember being the age of seven (though I make no claim of then being intelligent or even precocious) and realising religion was hogwash.

I now quite admire my little self for that insight, not quite believing I'm the same person.

[PS_RalphW]

A random thought: I distinctly remember being the age of seven (though I make no claim of then being intelligent or even precocious) and realising religion was hogwash.

I now quite admire my little self for that insight, not quite believing I'm the same person.

I was less than ten when I decided to get to the bottom of this religion thing that my teachers (and granny) kept banging on about. So I borrowed a bible and started reading.

Half way through Genesis was plenty.

My seven year old has started asking questions like 'Is it true you can have anything you want in Heaven?'. (meaning unlimited toys and sweets).

In the context of PO and the economic future they are facing, I was not impressed. She is good at reading. I think I might lend her a bible.

[JohnB]

Although I don't support the death penalty, at least there is a justifiable reason for it. Governments also indirectly kill innocent people by sending them to fight in wars, by allowing or not banning dangerous chemicals, and exposing citizens to other avoidable dangers.

Maybe a government that kills people who have committed murder, but bans the use such things as depleted uranium weapons, PVC and coal fired power stations, would be better than what we have now.

[JohnB]

A random thought: I distinctly remember being the age of seven (though I make no claim of then being intelligent or even precocious) and realising religion was hogwash.

It took me a lot longer than that I'm afraid. I gave up going to church in my teens because lazing in the bath on a Sunday morning was more enjoyable, and it was a gradual enlightening after that. It's taken decades to get the last bits of religion out of my system, but I think I'm cured now.

[Ludwig]

A random thought: I distinctly remember being the age of seven (though I make no claim of then being intelligent or even precocious) and realising religion was hogwash.

I now quite admire my little self for that insight, not quite believing I'm the same person.

I feel kind of the opposite. I was appauded for my brains at school, but it took me till I was about 13 to question Christianity, so I can't have been that clever!

In my defence I'd say that the Christianity I'd been exposed to was very liberal and I'd never been encouraged to believe in the literal truth of the Bible. No doubt a certain lack of emotional independence also made me want to persist in believing in a universal father figure.

I still think there are valuable truths in most religions, if you take out the dogma. Unfortunately the dogma was always necessary to keep "the plebs" in line.

[goslow]

at the risk of this turning into another extended religion thread, I suggest to Ralph W to check out the gospels to get a ahem..fuller picture of what religion is about (at least the Christian one!). Last thing you want to do with the Bible is treat it like a normal book and start reading straight through from the beginning, most folk get through Genesis and Exodus then get stuck in Leviticus!

by the way I disagree with the death penalty, its no deterrent, possibilities of mistakes etc etc

[PS_RalphW]

at the risk of this turning into another extended religion thread, I suggest to Ralph W to check out the gospels to get a ahem..fuller picture of what religion is about

I agree - this is not the place to start a religion flame war. No further comment from me.

[biffvernon]

by the way I disagree with the death penalty, its no deterrent, possibilities of mistakes etc etc

Oh, nothing to do with being wrong to kill people then? Just so long as you kill the right people.

[Ludwig]

by the way I disagree with the death penalty, its no deterrent, possibilities of mistakes etc etc

Oh, nothing to do with being wrong to kill people then? Just so long as you kill the right people.

I think it is perfectly OK to kill people if they'd do the same to you.

[2 As and a B]

Interesting...