Does Peak Oil make having a pension redundant?

[CountingDown]

Think I'm thru denial - into acceptance. Starting to trim back consumer parts of life is feeling good.

Always hated shopping anyway.

Of course, that ignores all the shopping I'm about to do to prep the house and garden

[woodburner]

Starting to trim back consumer parts of life is feeling good.

Is this a euphemism for "going to hire a skip"?

[CountingDown]

Starting to trim back consumer parts of life is feeling good.

Is this a euphemism for "going to hire a skip"?

Not yet!

No, it's more about starting to stop buying crap. Taking a long think before adding any more stuff to our cluttered lives.

And getting lots of great stuff for free from a friend clearing their late mother's house out.

[woodburner]

Yeah, I thought that too, so I started growing veg. That meant I tried to avoid unnecessary work. Despite having a spade, fork, hoe etc, I thought I'd need some tools like these www.easydigging.com That certainly made the work easier, then I'd need a few more tools, all necessary mind you. Then despite everywhere else having plenty of rain in the past couple of months, we've had about an inch altogether, so I need a way of watering the veg. Soaker hose fed from water butts is the way, so bought some soaker hose, oh, and the fittings to join bits to the feed pipe. Then I needed some nets to stop the butterflies and pigeons eating everything. Then I needed some frames for the netting. Then there's the seeds, then there's...........

We are genetically programmed to act like magpies, collecting things so we are prepared for when things get bad. They might not, but that doesn't alter the programming.

[biffvernon]

You want to teach your kids how to kill people?

Your words not mine. You may be able to play with the subtleties of the rhetorical, but you have a problem in reading what is written and not inferring something rather different.

Or maybe you didn't spot the question mark at the end of my comment.

When you say "teach them how to defend against attack" just how do you do that, particularly when one is committed to non-violence?

[snow hope]

Any chance we can get this thread back on topic and stop posting all the crap?

As I said, to a degree I am hedging my bets. I still think it is worth putting a bit aside every month for your retirement. The important bit is to put this money into something that does not lose value. This is the hard bit and the traditional places are no longer working! That does not mean we should all throw up our hands and never try to save anything towards our retirement. It just means we have to be a bit more careful where we deposit our monthly savings.

[biffvernon]

What was the topic? Oh yes, Does Peak Oil make having a pension redundant? It's actually a very difficult question to answer if you're still youngish, because you are having to forecast what the economy will be doing in a few decades out. And most predictions about the future turn out to be wrong.

When I was in my 20s, in the 1970s, I wasn't completely confident about the future and I cashed in the first four years of my pension, spending the money on an escape from the city to a smallholding in the country. I still think it was the right thing to do at the time.

[RenewableCandy]

I'm afraid we're just concentrating on paying off the roof over our heads. I'm trying to spend more time getting to know people and interesting goings-on round here, really for 3 reasons:

1. it's a damnsight more enjoyable than working
2. the kids won't forget who I am
3. you never know when it might come in useful

A spare room you can let out might be a good investment: you can let it for skills, for food or, like the elderly landlord of a Chinese guy I once knew, for being looked-after.

[stumuz]

I would go for real assets, such as property and land. Second would be a value added food production system and after a while, when you have found out what is going to happen in the domestic energy scene i.e. energy reduction or energy replacement, I would have a punt at a small group of domestic energy fitters.

But you are all going to hate me for this; I would defiantly, whilst we still have private property rights, consider property. Not the silly one bed flats, but traditional 2-3 bed houses with gardens, future proofed with minimal energy requirements. There will be strong demand for these properties. I have recently retrofitted a property I have rented out for the last 18 years and when word got round in the immediate area what I was doing I had a list of possible tenants before the existing tenant moved out!

For those who think that smallholdings will crash in price anytime soon, don’t hold your breath. I have been keeping an eye on possible 5-10 acre smallholdings for a while as a possible investment. Most estate agents do not have any and the agents that sometimes get them have a list you can put your name on to view!

[tubaplayer]

Not to be a doomer, but have you looked at the price of land?
While I was going through my "oh fnck what do I do now phase" a couple of years back that exact idea crossed my mind. There was a plot of land right across the street from my front door, more or less an acre from the size of it.
They were asking ninety grand for it.

Agricultural land is much cheaper but you can't buy just a single acre or even two or three.

The other problem you have is that if you manage to get two or three acres outside the city, how are you going to defend it or travel to it without petrol or diesel?

In short the "back to the land" idea only works if you already did it before the exits closed.

Too late. The exits are shut.

I'm just coming on 62. I am slowly (very slowly, and with little help) resurrecting a derelict but livable property and land. I have just short of an acre. At the mo I am just growing stuff and storing for the winter.

Cost of the property here - well, £10.600 + expenses when I bought it. It's up a bit from that now because of the exchange rates. Will the children follow me WTSHTF? I don't know, but they are all at least Peak Oil aware.

Oh, and this is a village of some 300+ people and it is most definitely a _community_!

Now you're making me seriously consider leaving the UK. I am about to get a CELTA/WEAREDODGY qualification which would mean I can get a job almost anywhere teaching English to adults. I have £100K to use as a deposit, which isn't currently enough to buy a gardenless flat in many parts of the UK. What would it buy me in Hungary?

http://www.casa-mia.at/ungarn-immobilien.php/cPath/2

Lots of examples

[2 As and a B]

As I said, to a degree I am hedging my bets. I still think it is worth putting a bit aside every month for your retirement. The important bit is to put this money into something that does not lose value. This is the hard bit and the traditional places are no longer working! That does not mean we should all throw up our hands and never try to save anything towards our retirement. It just means we have to be a bit more careful where we deposit our monthly savings.

That's an interesting point. This thread, like myself, has concentrated on the big capital things - pension lump sums and properties with land. But there are also the small things and things which can be bought a bit at a time. Investing in equipment for the future - tools, clothes, etc - that will keep their worth is one investment, including removable installations such as solar panels and wind turbines (which don't increase a property's value relative to their installation cost). Another is investing time and money in acquiring skills on the job, voluntary if necessary, or at evening courses or college - or indeed with a Transition Town group or any group involved in strengthening the local community spirit.

[CountingDown]

Couldn't agree more - surely skills are the most transferable "pension" plan you can get. If you're indispensible to your community then surely they'll keep you alive

[tubaplayer]

Couldn't agree more - surely skills are the most transferable "pension" plan you can get. If you're indispensible to your community then surely they'll keep you alive

Would be nice, but many years ago I learned the lesson of "Nobody is indispensible". Surely far better to barter your knowledge in exchange for goods? If you make yourself indispensible then surely as hens lay eggs someone will spy/steal/acquire the knowledge and make you redundant.

How about teaching a number of people what you know, in exchange for barter, then learning something else that they don't know and bartering that again?

Just a thought.

[kenneal - lagger]

How about teaching a number of people what you know, in exchange for barter, then learning something else that they don't know and bartering that again?

Just a thought.

Playing the tuba? Just a thought.. ':D'

[contadino]

Are we back to talking about manufacturing vs. knowledge economies? I remember Gordon Brown talking about replacing UK manufacturing with knowledge industries in the late 90's, but I reckon he's kicking himself about that now.

You can't survive for long on knowledge. You have to be able to 'do' too.