What's on your PO shopping list?!

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 10 Jan 2006, 08:39

If you fitted a thermal heat store....

http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8 ... rmal+store

You could attach all manner of devices such as solar thermal, ground source heat pump, wood burner & back boiler, and a standard gas condensing boiler.

You could then run all manner of space heating devices such as wet underfloor heating, radiators, or use it to supply mains pressure (drinkable) hot water. (filling a kettle with pre heated water should reduce your electricity consumption somewhat.

This is what I intend to do, then you can use gas when you can afford to for example during the coldest days of winter, or any of the other options (solar energy, wood, heat pump).

This will give you a range of fuel options.. Electricity, Gas Wood, Coal, junk mail...

DamianB · Post by **DamianB** » 10 Jan 2006, 10:30

Ballard wrote:You could attach all manner of devices such as solar thermal, ground source heat pump, wood burner & back boiler, and a standard gas condensing boiler.

I think you would be limited by the number of coils in your store - the most I've seen is three and piggy-backing a source onto an existing circuit might get complicated and/or inefficient.

Joules · Post by **Joules** » 10 Jan 2006, 13:03

The engineer I had was even dubious about 3 coils and he was concerned about spoiling what he considered to be a highly efficient system. However, I wasn't prepared to have a full blown Peak Oil debate with him there and then, to convince him of the validity of my thinking!

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 10 Jan 2006, 13:43

I have just been informed by my plumber that my oil heating system is a sealed pressurised system and that means I can't put in a solid fuel stove with back boiler.

He also made the point (when I told him of my plans), where was my wood (as in forest)........

One point to note in all this is that the most heat efficent property is like a box with an upstairs. My house is not like a box. My best bet might be to actually move long term.......

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 10 Jan 2006, 15:55

Some of the thermal heat stores I've looked at work the opposite way round to conventional heating systems.

You have a large Tank of unpressurised hot water (with a small vented cistern on the top). this is where all the heat sources feed into and space heating is taken from (no coils therefore no real limit to inputs and outputs.

The mains pressure water is fed into a heat exchanger coil at the top of the tank, and comes out as instant mains pressure drinkable hot water, this means that you can also have a mains pressure shower without a pump.

http://www.gasman.fsbusiness.co.uk/ther ... _store.htm

Bozzio, Have I missed anything?

Bozzio · Post by **Bozzio** » 10 Jan 2006, 18:14

Ballard wrote:Bozzio, Have I missed anything?

Hi Ballard,

Nope, your description is spot on.

Thermal stores can be made to order so several coils can be added to a standard model. I really don't know what the limit is but the size of the cylinder and therefore the number of coils it can accommodate is an obvious issue.

Thermal stores are treated as unpressurised/vented hot water systems. As Ballard correctly says, there is a f&e tank that supplies the water to the cylinder and which is either directly attached to the top of the cylinder or is remote in the loft or a higher cupboard. As such they are allowed to be used with multi-fuel heat sources.

Unvented cylinders cannot be used with wood/coal stoves due to the risk of explosion so Joules will have to change his cylinder - sorry.

snow hope wrote:I have just been informed by my plumber that my oil heating system is a sealed pressurised system and that means I can't put in a solid fuel stove with back boiler.

This is non-sense. Again the trusty thermal store overcomes this problem since pressurised and non-pressurised (gravity fed) systems can be combined just by connecting to different coils. Job done.

Ballard · Post by **Ballard** » 10 Jan 2006, 20:45

Information on various thermal store options...

On second thoughts, I think I'll start another thread.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 21 Sep 2008, 22:53

Andy Hunt wrote:My Wonder Washer arrived yesterday! I must have got the last one! (Sorry Snow Hope!)

Not used it yet, though. It looks for all the world like a table-top cement mixer!

Well I posted that on 11th November 2005. And tonight, we used the wonder washer for the first time!!

Our washing machine has broken down, so we broke out the wonder washer. And it's really good actually! It doesn't take much 'elbow grease' to get it going, and it has some kind of clever compression system which somehow forces the water and detergent through the fabric, and gets it really clean!

Highly recommended!!!

Erik · Post by **Erik** » 21 Sep 2008, 23:30

Andy Hunt wrote:
Andy Hunt wrote:My Wonder Washer arrived yesterday! I must have got the last one! (Sorry Snow Hope!)

Not used it yet, though. It looks for all the world like a table-top cement mixer!
Well I posted that on 11th November 2005. And tonight, we used the wonder washer for the first time!!

Our washing machine has broken down, so we broke out the wonder washer. And it's really good actually! It doesn't take much 'elbow grease' to get it going, and it has some kind of clever compression system which somehow forces the water and detergent through the fabric, and gets it really clean!

Highly recommended!!!

Nice one! Always good to hear a success story in the Preparations forum.

When the SHTF at least you will be able to clean up afterwards!

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 21 Sep 2008, 23:42

I've found it doesn't get clothes with dirty marks, that have been stuffed in a bag with damp towels for several weeks waiting for a dry day, very clean, but I use mine quite often, and am pleased with it.

I think the latest ones have metal spindles, but mine are plastic or nylon and the handle tends to work a bit lose and has twisted the spindle. It's now fixed in place with a screw into the end of the spindle and is much better.

Post by **adam2** » 22 Sep 2008, 08:44

Blue Peter wrote:
Ballard wrote:Candles,

Ed
As well as candles, are there any good, and SAFE, paraffin lamps or similar?

Peter.

If used with care, most parrafin lamps are safe, be a bit wary of very cheap imports that may be very poorly made. The main risks and means of avoiding are listed below

1) The heat of a correctly functioning lamp igniting the surroundings. Avoid by proper placement, the heat output is often greater than expected, and accidents have occured from lamps placed at was believed to be a safe distance from surroundings.

2) The oil container breaking or shattering as a result of a drop or knock or thermal stress, thus allowing the oil to spill and possibly ignite. Avoid by not using lamps with an oil container made of glass or ceramic. Metal is much safer.

3) The oil in the container becoming unduly heated from the flame, and reaching the flashpoint and igniting or even exploding. Avoid by useing only well designed oil lamps in which the oil container never gets more than warm. (some very cheap hurricane lamps are prone to heating the oil to a dangerous degree)
If you have an otherwise sound lamp, that seems to get too hot, consider useing veg oil instead of parrafin, it has a much higher flashpoint.
Very old (over about 100 years) oil lamps may have been designed for veg oil and be less safe on paraffin.

4) The oil becoming dangerously hot from some external cause and igniting. Avoid by not placing lamps too near stoves, fires, hot water pipes, or other oil lamps.

5) The flame travelling down the wick, and burning inside the oil container. Avoid by using well designed lamps with a wick tube at least 25mm high. Also take care to use the correct size wick, one thats too small and does not fill the wick tube, greatly increases the risk of the flame traveling downwards.

6) Use of the wrong fuel is very dangerous. All wick type lamps are designed to burn parrafin/kerosene/lamp oil.
If this is not available, then diesel fuel or light heating oil can be used, though it tends to smoke and smell a bit.
NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE PETROL/GASOLINE/COLEMAN FUEL or similar volatile fuels.

7)Pressure lanterns have a good safety record, the main risks come from improvised repairs and use of inncorect parts, allowing fuel under pressure to escape and perhaps ignite.
I would suggest only useing pressure lanterns that burn parrafin.
(pressure lanterns that burn petrol or colman fuel are available, but IMHO are only suitable for outdoor use)

P.S. I know that this thread is some years old, but the points raised are still relevant today.

JonB · Post by **JonB** » 05 Oct 2008, 21:13

hatchelt wrote:Mike, could you give some more info on that water filter of yours? Water is one of the main areas of preparation which I haven't much of a clue about. Where did you get yours from and how did you choose it?

I've got stuff from these guys:
http://www.drinksafe-systems.co.uk/
2 portable bottles and a big gravity fed from a bag system.
I'm a microbiologist, and went over their data, and its good.
Apparently they are bring used by the Army in Camp Bastion
etc. and lasting a long way past recommended life.
Cheaper that Katadyn, but
Katadyn may be more robust on the road.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 06 Oct 2008, 08:46

6) Use of the wrong fuel is very dangerous. All wick type lamps are designed to burn parrafin/kerosene/lamp oil.
If this is not available, then diesel fuel or light heating oil can be used, though it tends to smoke and smell a bit.
NEVER EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE PETROL/GASOLINE/COLEMAN FUEL or similar volatile fuels.

Applies to Primus stoves too.

My mother was a nurse in Japan during the Korean war. She said that the majority of the burns victims were US soldiers who had nicked UK Primus stoves and then filled them with PETROL.

The resulting explosion was less than healthy - especially inside a tent

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 06 Oct 2008, 12:19

Have just ordered one of these:

The "Powertraveller" Solar Gorilla, and I've ordered the Power Gorilla to go with it.

Handy for charging phones, laptops, LED lanterns etc.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 06 Oct 2008, 12:25

Andy Hunt wrote:Have just ordered one of these:

The "Powertraveller" Solar Gorilla, and I've ordered the Power Gorilla to go with it.

Handy for charging phones, laptops, LED lanterns etc.

Why does George Foreman come to mind?