Sainsbury to the rescue :roll:

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 16 Jun 2009, 12:05

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... peed-bumps

A supermarket chain will open its first "people-powered" store this week using technology that captures energy from vehicles to power its checkouts.

In a European first, Sainsbury's will install the invention at its new store in Gloucester, opening this Wednesday.

Energy will be captured every time a vehicle drives over "kinetic road plates" in the car park and then channelled back into the store.

The kinetic road plates are expected to produce 30 kWh of green energy every hour — more than enough energy to power the store's checkouts. The system, pioneered for Sainsbury's by Peter Hughes of Highway Energy Systems, does not affect the car or fuel efficiency, and drivers feel no disturbance as they drive over the plates.

Alison Austin, Sainsbury's environment manager, said: "This is revolutionary. Not only are we the first to use such cutting-edge technology with our shoppers, but customers can now play a very active role in helping make their local shop greener, without extra effort or cost.

"We want to continue offering great value but we also want to make the weekly shop sustainable. Using amazing technology like this helps us reduce our use of carbon and makes Sainsbury's a leading energy-efficient business."

The kinetic road plates are one of a number of energy-saving measures at Sainsbury's new store in Gloucester Quays, Gloucester. The store will harvest rainwater to flush the store's toilets and solar thermal panels will heat up to 100% of the store's hot water during the summer, and more than 90% of the construction waste was re-used or recycled.

David Sheehan, director of store development and construction at Sainsbury's, said: "The new environmental features within the Gloucester Quays store mark a very exciting time in store development. We are able to use cutting-edge technology to improve our services and the store environment for our customers and colleagues, at the same time as ultimately reducing our carbon footprint across the UK."

Scientists pointed out that the energy generated by the devices is not
totally "free". Rather, they capture a tiny amount from each car that
passes over them, increasing each vehicle's fuel consumption by a tiny
amount.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 16 Jun 2009, 12:16

Adam1 wrote:Scientists pointed out that the energy generated by the devices is not totally "free". Rather, they capture a tiny amount from each car that passes over them, increasing each vehicle's fuel consumption by a tiny amount.

As noted before, the system is fine if the plates are positioned where vehicles are compelled to slow down anyway - thus capturing some of the energy that would go into wearing out brake pads - AND the lifetime energy cost of the devices, from construction through to disposal, is reasonably less than the energy generated.

I actually suspect it's just one amongst a zillion other devices that, directly or indirectly, causes increased consumption of energy.

Post by **clv101** » 16 Jun 2009, 12:33

30 kwh on an hour is a power of 30 kw! That's a lot to recover from a few cars. Maybe a busy store has one car every 15 sec (240/hr)? 15 sec is 0.42% of an hour so each car would need to deliver 125 wh of energy.

Petrol contains around 9.67 kWh/l so we're talking about 13 ml of petrol. A 40mpg (8.8 miles/litre) car will go 184 metres on 13 ml.

I don't coast 184 m into Sainsbury's, so for this to be extracting 30 kw from 240 cars an hour, it has to be costing some extra energy.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 16 Jun 2009, 20:43

That's ok, most of the people going to Sainsbury's won't have a clue, couldn't care less, will marvel that Sainsbury"s are being so eco-friendly; and someone who pretends to have rewritten the laws of physics will get a fad wad.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 16 Jun 2009, 20:53

they capture a tiny amount from each car that
passes over them, increasing each vehicle's fuel consumption by a tiny
amount.

So it is really a form of theft then... ????

They could siphon a few ml from each car on entering the car park

or (as they have done) find a high tech way of achieving the same thing!

bigjim · Post by **bigjim** » 16 Jun 2009, 21:07

There's a few discussions of this at the Bad Science forum.

Thread 1

Thread 2

Thread 3

They all seem to come to the same conclusion ie that the numbers don't add up and the energy recovery device will need an unfeasible amount of usage to make any dent in the Sainsbury's energy bill. They'd be better off siphoning a small amount of petrol from everyone as they enter the car park.

Surely if Sainsbury's really wanted to be green they'd cut the distance their goods are transported and encourage people to walk or cycle to their stores. But why come up with simple, effective solutions when complex, ineffective solutions will do? They get a bit of free PR as well!

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 16 Jun 2009, 22:26

bigjim wrote: Surely if Sainsbury's really wanted to be green they'd cut the distance their goods are transported and encourage people to walk or cycle to their stores. But why come up with simple, effective solutions when complex, ineffective solutions will do? They get a bit of free PR as well!

Sainsbury's don't want to be green, they're a business. Businesses don't thrive on ethical behaviour, but they thrive on good PR.

It's not a "simple, effective" solution to source goods locally because it will increase costs. And trying to get people to cycle to their shops will have every 4x4-driving idiot deserting them for Tesco.

This is the reason we're in this fix in the first place. Adam Smith's "invisible hand" ensuring the best of all worlds from cumulative self-interest is about to be shown for the lie it always was.

tomhitchman · Post by **tomhitchman** » 16 Jun 2009, 22:32

How about 'priority lanes' for the checkout for cyclists and pedestrians, thiner trolleys so you can hang your ortlieb bags on the side, cycle bays next to the disabled bays and at least a fixed proportion of car bays being replaced by cycle bays each month or year.

Discounts for cyclists? Has anybody calculated the average drive to the supermarket in terms of energy usage compared to the energy in the food? I bet there are some stark statistics that could come out of this.

What about extra discounts for purchasing non frozen or refrigerated food?

Post by **clv101** » 16 Jun 2009, 22:39

tomhitchman wrote:Discounts for cyclists? Has anybody calculated the average drive to the supermarket in terms of energy usage compared to the energy in the food? I bet there are some stark statistics that could come out of this.

I think I read once that the energy used by customers own cars to and from the supermarket was more than all the energy taken in the food distribution chain to the supermarket itself.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 17 Jun 2009, 10:07

We have a scheme just started in our county town, with posters in shops saying: "shop here and we'll refund your parking charges."

Ermmm. So in I goes, propping up the bike outside...

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 17 Jun 2009, 12:36

Keela wrote:
they capture a tiny amount from each car that
passes over them, increasing each vehicle's fuel consumption by a tiny
amount.
So it is really a form of theft then... ????

My thought exactly. Thieving scrotes!!!

PowerSwitch

Sainsbury to the rescue :roll:

Sainsbury to the rescue :roll:

Re: Sainsbury to the rescue :roll: