UK ‘safe havens’ in the coming years

[Lord Beria3]

UK ‘safe havens’ in the coming years

As we enter into the era of scarcity and resource constraints where will be good areas to live in the future?

The dominant concerns should be agricultural carrying capacity and social order.

It will be important to live in areas with access to abundant or potentially abundant food resources. Furthermore, in an era of growing social instability it is vital that the locality you live in an area that has a reasonably civil and community spirit.

The areas I will suggest are the following:

• South-west (although not near council estates)
• Wales – countryside of Wales
• Scotland – similar to Wales
• The shires of England, market towns/villages in wide countryside, in particular Hampshire, Oxfordshire etc
• Central London – secure because of the British state and a privileged locus of resources

[adam2]

Central London (unless heavily depopulated) offers little chance to grow food, but does have the advantage of richer pickings for scavenging/looting.
As you point out, London would probably receive priority in the allocation of food, motor fuel, electric power etc

A rural area has much to commend it, provided that you own property and are part of an established community.
Last minute arrivals are unlikely to be welcome, and may be very numerous.

[Totally_Baffled]

I just cannot see the countryside being any more a 'haven' than anywhere else in the UK, particularly if you are expecting a total breakdown of society.

Most of the countryside in the UK (particularly in England) is within reach from major conurbations without motorised transport.

So if the supermarkets empty as the national food networks breakdown, then two issues:

Security - raiding parties of nasty bastards will be a constant menace.

Food, - self sufficiency is extremely difficult even if you are bloody good at horti/agri/permiculture!

I stick with the view that society holds it together (although degraded) - or we are all stuffed

[fifthcolumn]

Ireland.

If things collapse and there are food shortages, even the parts of the UK that you have posted that are "underpopulated" (e.g. Scotland and Wales) are way over carrying capacity.

Being a Northerner I'm familiar with Scotland.
It's not a paradise. It has Glasgow on the West coast and all the surrounding towns. Heavily built up.

Going further East it's less populated but to be honest, there's nowhere that is more than a day's walk. There's nowhere to hide in a collapse situation.

Unless you're going to go all mountainman then you're talking about a 100 mile by 50 mile strip of land that has any potential of being farmed.
The mountainous regions of scotland are barbarous and you wouldn't last a single winter out there alone.

I think basically that if things collapse, those living in the UK are fncked. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.

Good luck.

[kenneal - lagger]

The highlands supported a large population before the clearances. It might have been a very hard life as a crofter but it was better than living around the edges. How hard will depend on whether we get Global Warming or Cooling.

[fifthcolumn]

The highlands supported a large population before the clearances. It might have been a very hard life as a crofter but it was better than living around the edges. How hard will depend on whether we get Global Warming or Cooling.

Yeah when it was covered in natural forest habitat with interspersed crofts.
newsflash: the natural habitat is all gone and any hope of subsisting has been trashed by two hundred years of sheep overgrazing the land. I bet the entire highlands would be lucky to support a hundred thousand with low input agriculture.

You lot better hope my more optimistic posts are right because otherwise you're royally shafted.

[DominicJ]

Cant someone walk John O groates to Lands End inside a week?
A two litre bottle for water and a back pack of good food and you can probably make it.
Isolated doesnt exist in the continental US(so sayeth the Rubies), its laughable in the UK.

The South West is quite poor farmland isnt it? Its also wildly over populated isnt it?
North Wales is practicaly a suburb of Manchester now, any hopes of a Ruthin Confederacy better be backed up with a lot of guns.
Further south and west is better, but its not like Bristol and Cardif are cut off from Brecon.
Scotland is not similar to Wales, its hell on Earth.
Poor soil, worse weather, if you have 100 friends and a few million quid, sure, buy a few thousand acres and you can probably build a decent fortress town, I wouldnt want to be there in a small group though.

The Shires, theres no guarentee living in Oxfordshire will get you first dibs on Oxfordshires food, half of Ireland starved as food was shipped to better paying customers in England.
And frankly, if an infantry company and 4 light tanks turn up in your village to "gather" food for "sharing", IE steal and give to London, not much you can do.

White, Mann, Anglsey, The Orkneys and the The Shetlands are all reasonable candidates however, providing you actualy own some land there, turning up with a smile and hoping for a welfare state probably wont do you well.



Does anyone have any figures for Scotlands middle ages population?
I thought it was always pretty much empty.

[Catweazle]

If you're really concerned about starving download the Plants For A future book. It contains 7000 edible plants. Get out and plant a load and keep a record of where they are.

The man in the street won't even recognise these plants, let alone steal them from your land.

[SILVERHARP2]

If you're really concerned about starving download the Plants For A future book. It contains 7000 edible plants. Get out and plant a load and keep a record of where they are.

The man in the street won't even recognise these plants, let alone steal them from your land.

its a good refernce that , educational if nothing else. The easiest in my mind if you are that way inclined would be to live near a rocky coast with a low population , you will have access to numerous shell fish , migrating birds etc.

[emordnilap]

Ireland.

There are that some believe that Britain might attempt recolonisation of this island, around 2016, which would be a significant anniversary.

Given the speed of Beria's scenario, it's not an impossibility.

[Adam1]

The areas I will suggest are the following:

• South-west (although not near council estates)
• Wales – countryside of Wales
• Scotland – similar to Wales
• The shires of England, market towns/villages in wide countryside, in particular Hampshire, Oxfordshire etc
• Central London – secure because of the British state and a privileged locus of resources

Saying that it isn't advisable to live "near council estates" sounds like it comes from the perspective of someone who has that unstated "middle class" fear of "working class" people, addressed to "middle class" people who obviously don't live on a council estate themselves.

First, of course, not all "council estates", whatever that means these days, are the same. I wonder whether a "nice middle class" resident of, say St Georges Hill, Weybridge, would experience more solidarity than a "nice working class" person living on a "typical council estate".

Plus, why this fear of council estates in the south west? Are they ok if they are in Wales, or in the Shires? Why are Hampshire and Oxfordshire marked out for praise? I'm sure that Lancashire or Derbyshire are perfectly fine places to live.

[DominicJ]

Saying that it isn't advisable to live "near council estates" sounds like it comes from the perspective of someone who has that unstated "middle class" fear of "working class" people, addressed to "middle class" people who obviously don't live on a council estate themselves.

Could be he's lived near one?
A bicycle stolen from my mums development will almost certainly turn up on the council tower block estate across the road.

Of course, the council estate I'm in isnt "too bad", although there are plenty of high fences, dogs and barbed wire, along with random violence.

[Andy Hunt]

East or West, home is best.

[Lord Beria3]

So if the supermarkets empty as the national food networks breakdown, then two issues:

Security - raiding parties of nasty bastards will be a constant menace.

Food, - self sufficiency is extremely difficult even if you are bloody good at horti/agri/permiculture!

Two points to this. Living in the countryside should provide some security from the worse kind of criminality. Furthermore criminal gangs still need to get to the country, requiring petrol etc. as this gets more expensive I would imagine this would become less of an issue.

Regarding food self-sufficiency. It is difficult but the Russians sort-of managed it after the collapse of SU – an allotment plot goes a long way to self-sufficenysh. Everything’s relative, and a gradualised collapse of government authority/law and order will allow a few years to settle into a established rural community and gives you a better chance of survival.

[JonB]

Ireland.

You're kidding.
When the now nicely behaved PIRA and UFF et al
can no longer get income from protection rackets,
pimping, drugs etc. and need food, they'll be the
new bosses.

Belfast and Dublin are full of a lot of people, and
everything's closer.

My wife's family farm in NI, and most farms are small
and well used. Not a lot of space for any more people.

Fifth is right, in any collapse we will have slim chance,
prepared or not.

I agree with his view of the future. I hope he's right.