relocating collected rainwater

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 27 Feb 2009, 17:12

Most of our roofs (sheds, house etc) are located at the lower end of our land; we collect rainwater from all of them for use on the garden but carrying two watering cans backwards and forwards (full, uphill) is getting a bit much.

What we need is a way of transferring the water from butts at a lower level to a higher level; only a matter of a metre, maybe two, of difference in height but up to a distance of around eighty metres.

Solar pumping (even a slow but continuous trickle) could be good but we're prepared to hand pump if necessary, so where would I get such stuff? The simpler the solution the better and preferably not grid powered.

We're a long way off getting any kind of wind power but when we do, excess energy, if there is any, could be put to work doing this job.

Despite the reputation Ireland has for rain, we get long periods with none, particularly in spring and early summer, so we have lots of butts, just in the wrong places. We moan about this particular problem every year so it's time I did something about it.

We have thought of simply building some kind of 'roof' - merely a rain collection device - at the highest point as one possibility. Other suggestions welcome.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Feb 2009, 18:14

Move house and sheds?

tomhitchman · Post by **tomhitchman** » 27 Feb 2009, 20:16

It depends on how high the roof is and your first section of downpipe on house and sheds compared to the highest point at the furthest reach on the land.

If the later is smaller than the former then you can have the collector high up on the downpipe connected all the way through to the end of the garden and water will find its own level ie transfer itself down (up!) the garden. It will just be full to the same level all the time there is water in the butts (assuming filling input is in the bottom)

You wil have to be careful that there are no leaks in the system as it would all drain out.

If you calcuiated the height (or used trial and error at the far end) you could get it so when the tub is full the water just goes straight down the downpipe.

Alternatively you could have an overflow from one butt to another at just below the level of the highest point of water with a valve, when the valve is open then excess water drains to your other tanks or butts, when they are full you just turn the valve off and the excess will go down the drainpipe.

With a system like this you could then have some irrigation pipes laid just below ground level from the butts, using gravity to allow the water to flow, with spurs and valves on each raised bed and turn on each as required, watering only the beds that need it whilst doing your obsevation. That way there is almost no effort in watering.

Hope this helps.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 28 Feb 2009, 02:22

Emordnilap, for kit, try http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ . They've got all sorts of pumps from about £35 or http://www.navitron.org.uk/product_deta ... 7&catID=65 for a solar powered well pump but it's expensive at £360.

Rather than loads of water butts get a couple, or more, 1000 or 1200 ltr IBC containers but get black ones if possible so the water doesn't go green.

Then, either take a direct pipe from your rainwater downpipe to slope down into the top of the first IBC container and fit an overflow into the second one at the TOP and then overflow the second/last into a surface water drain or soakaway, or, if you can't get the slope, put a water butt at the bottom of the down pipe with a submersible pump with a float switch and connect that into the IBC as before.

Get the connectors for the IBC tap from the IBC supplier, most sell them, and they will them fit your container. They do Hozelock fittings. Very useful.

Machine Mart do all the hoses and the reinforced hose is better than the layflat if you're using a cheap low powered submersible as I do.

For the overflow connectors use standard 40mm drainage fittings. They work OK with my 45sq m roof collecting area.

Either do the irrigation system as Tom said or get some ordinary hose leading to a leaky hose and run that around the garden. Then just turn on the tap on the IBC and get on with something else for a while. Put the IBC up on blocks so that you can get a watering can under the spout and it will also give a bit more head for the hose.

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 28 Feb 2009, 21:24

RAM PUMP - that's what you need:

http://www.clemson.edu/irrig/equip/ram.htm

Loads more out there. It's on my list of ten impossible things to do before breakfast to ensure the survival of whoever commandeers my property.

hardworkinghippy · Post by **hardworkinghippy** » 28 Feb 2009, 22:08

Ram pumps are great, but you need a good head of water to push up the piston which then falls down and pushes a small amount of water outwards and upwards. They're ideal if you have a stream but I don't think a hydraulic ram would work in this situation and they are very expensive!

Tomhitchman and kenneal talked about using as much height as possible to make the best of what you've got. We've got a chicken shed right at the bottom of the garden which we built into a raised bed and we tried to get the rain barrels as high as possible so that they can at least be used for the chickens' water, the pigs' water and the plants around and next to the shed.

I think to catch water at the highest point is the way to go - even with a tarpaulin or butyl pond liner if you can't do a fixed roof. Otherwise it's a solar pump.

It's a bloomin' shame you can't wave a magic wand and do as biffvernon suggested and turn everything upside down.

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 28 Feb 2009, 22:42

Judy of the woods reckons a 5-6' head to pump upto 15-20' for a home made, very inexpensive pump - I don't think there is much to lose in giving it a go.

http://www.judyofthewoods.net/ram_pump.html

I intend to, collecting roof water into 8 x 1000l black IBC containers (Of which by the way, I was only able to find one source in the UK for more than one) mounted on a frame to rain gutter height, which will give a suitable drop. Hopefully anyway.
The plan so far has progressed to the purchase of and delivery of the said containers, and much deliberation over siting.
Right now, it's in the queue, but does not have the top priority, construction of an eco loo to cater for up to 50 people per day for 6 months is currently giving me all the headaches.
You bloody lot here are the reason for my forthcoming discomfort at dealing with lot's of other peoples poo, what with your blase talk of the wonders of humanure

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 01 Mar 2009, 02:22

A ram pump uses a lot of water to pump a small amount so if you've spent a lot of money catching a limited amount of water you don't want to lose most of it to pump a small fraction of it to a higher level. I'm not sure of the fractions but they would depend on the relative heads of input and output.

Eatyourveg, I can't work out what you are trying do do with your system. If you're collecting it at a high level surely you can just let gravity move it?

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 01 Mar 2009, 02:36

Emordnilap, if you need to check the levels at your house use a hose full of water to compare levels. You can either use a transparent tube or a short length of transparent stuck into the end of an ordinary hose.

See here

http://www.endtimesreport.com/water_level.html

or a bit more complicated here

http://www.small-farm-permaculture-and- ... asics.html

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Mar 2009, 08:33

treaclemine · Post by **treaclemine** » 01 Mar 2009, 08:53

A question someone else implied:

Is there any way at all to redesign the situation, so that the place where you need to use the water is in a better location relative to the water collection zone?

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 01 Mar 2009, 10:06

I'd get yourself one of these...

http://www.northerntooluk.com/products.asp?partno=1545E

There's nothing stopping you getting a solar powered pond pump at a later date. Solar's good for this sort of thing as you tend to need more water when it's sunny. However, the pumping kits I've seen look pretty flimsy and don't have particularly high heads.

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 01 Mar 2009, 20:46

Eatyourveg, I can't work out what you are trying do do with your system. If you're collecting it at a high level surely you can just let gravity move it?[/quote]

I have no idea what I'm doing most of the time myself, but in this case I need to get water up to a higher level, and some to a lower level which gravity can take care of. I am aware of the waste water involved in a ram pump set up, which I intead for use no.3, irrigation.
It is complicated - I am attempting to kill alot of birds with one stone.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 02 Mar 2009, 04:50

Always go with the simplest option, it's nearly always the best.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 02 Mar 2009, 09:13

eatyourveg wrote:You bloody lot here are the reason for my forthcoming discomfort at dealing with lot's of other peoples poo, what with your blase talk of the wonders of humanure

So long as you have masses of fairly dry sawdust, all will be well. Tell your guests to be very generous with it and the loo can be quite pleasant, no smells at all except for sawn wood.

We got a large trailer load, which will do for this small house for about five years and we can <almost> afford to be wasteful with it.

So long as you use plenty of sawdust with each poo and wee and have more buckets than you really need, well, there are much worse jobs in the world than dealing with the result!

A useful bucket to look out for is one with the handle attached part way down, a few centimetres below the rim. I've seen them in agricultural suppliers and they contain tractor oil. It might be worth asking the counter staff who buys that brand and then contacting the buyer, offering to take the empties off their hands.