Are we scary?

dotty · Post by **dotty** » 25 Feb 2009, 19:14

hey HWH

yes we do go back a while

I love a good graph...I make them for a living

I'm not knocking this forum there's loads of good stuff here but HWH puts it right where we are what are we going to do about it?

Just looking over a couple of posts above this we have:

unregulated free market

What the flip!

state managed descent

Double flip

I used to live in a flat in south east london and the woman who lived beneath me used to say 'bleemin hell don't understand what aarf those words mean' so I learnt to speak south east london...could still say the same stuff just using differnet words...Stuff is a good word, vastly underrated in my mind

This is good to my mind:

we'll muddle through if we all get together

I feel like I've opened a minefield but if you are deadly serious about making a difference you have to make it totally accessible...but I don't know how you do that.

Consensus, committees and meetings all have a place but in reality what most people need to know it how to grow a carrot and how to darn a sock.

One thing I have noticed here is that although you have a 'living in the future section' it tends to be about after the zombies arrive...What about simple cookery or make do and mend type stuff

edited because I just don't get the quote thing but hopefully have now

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 25 Feb 2009, 19:36

dotty wrote:
One thing I have noticed here is that although you have a 'living in the future section' it tends to be about after the zombies arrive...What about simple cookery or make do and mend type stuff

I think most of that is in the "Preparations" section. Except the bit that isn't...

maryb · Post by **maryb** » 25 Feb 2009, 20:22

I tend to read most days but rarely post. The tone is much more bad tempered than when I first started reading. It's quite depressing because there was a much stronger sense of purpose a year or so ago.

A lot of you say that you look forward to living in more sustainable ways with a 'real' sense of community - but the overall impression from the site these days is that you round on anyone who challenges the consensus then congratulate yourselves for your tolerance in not banning them. It doesn't fill me with optimism for the success of these new post oil communities

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 25 Feb 2009, 20:29

maryb wrote:the overall impression from the site these days is that you round on anyone who challenges the consensus then congratulate yourselves for your tolerance in not banning them.

Thank you for posting this.
It is 100% accurate.

I bailed from this site more than a year ago because I got sick of all the "don't talk rot, you're wrong, it's like this...."

I checked in from time to time but only started to post again when I noticed a few more posters who have similar positions to my own.

Ironically enough, we probably now have a much healthier group than we did over a year ago where it was just me shouting in the wind.

There are scientific studies (well... social "science" anyway) that show that the most effective solution is reached when you have outspoken individuals on a group who do not share everyone elses homogenous point of view.

I think there is hope for us yet. Britain is not comprised of labour + greens. It's comprised of Labour + Tories + Greens + Lib Dems + BNP + a gaggle of others.

As a "peak oil community" board it helps much more if we listen to everyone.

A tory peak oil believer is likely to have a different opinion of how things should be handled than a revolutionary communist peak oil believer and I think it's most important to have everyone's input to this most critical situation we are going to have to deal with.

That said, I hope we get the chance to deal with it instead of having some kind of collapse caused by the financial problems even before we get around to dealing with peak oil.

If we're skint, starving and disease ridden by 2015 we're going to have no chance of solving peak oil let alone global warming.

maryb · Post by **maryb** » 25 Feb 2009, 20:36

I don't mind the robust responses, it's the constant snide remarks about those who are out of step which I find so depressing.

CountingDown · Post by **CountingDown** » 25 Feb 2009, 20:41

marknorthfield wrote:I'm a bit of a lurker here (apart from the last week when I've been home ill rather a lot...) but I have read this forum aplenty over the last four years or so. There does seem to be more ill-temperedness than there used to be, usually centered around certain individuals whose forthright opinions and combative natures lead to playground-worthy spats in certain threads. A shame.

That said, compared to comments left on newspapers' website blogs and such like the overall impression seems restrained, with generous dashes of humour here and there helping things along considerably. The modern affliction of internet invisibility encouraging the lowest standards of civility imaginable hasn't taken root much, thankfully. Maybe it'z coz we iz British... Or a bit green between the ears. I dunno.

Yes, the subject matter is scary, or at the very least daunting, to a newcomer. Not a pill that can be sweetened much, unfortunately. For all my lack of forum confidence, I was very glad to have found Powerswitch when I did: it's an oasis of relative sanity.

(edited to add a comma!)

I think that sums up my experience here perfectly. And I do tend to self-censor - I pretty much stop reading a thread after two posts by RGR, as thats when it degenerates. Seems to be less going on in Preparations than I'd like - not sure if that's because you're all so prepared already, or because you're all hiding it all from "The Man"

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 25 Feb 2009, 20:58

The tone does seem to have become more combative than supportive recently.

I have to wonder if that is precisely what certain factions have been working towards.

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 25 Feb 2009, 21:11

'Seems to be less going on in Preparations than I'd like - not sure if that's because you're all so prepared already, or because you're all hiding it all from "The Man" '

There is probably quite a bit of truth in that statement, and if not the man, uninformed neighbours snooping for ammo.

Some of the bickering that goes on is quite distasteful, but I wouldn't call anything here particularly scary.
Having reflected on that thought, I imagine that is because most PO'ers have their head in a totally different place from the general populace, and don't always realise the size of the gulf - and it is sizeable.

I find myself holding my tongue quite frequently when out and about in the 'normal' world. We do inhabit quite a different planet compared to the general population, everything is differently coloured.

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 25 Feb 2009, 21:29

In light of all the comments about combative threads and as someone who has been combative, I feel I should respond.

Firstly, I apologise if I have offended or put off any bystanders.

As far as I recall, I have only been combative with RGR and DominicJ.

With RGR this has only been about his attitude of rubbishing the quality of the arguments on here on the basis, sometimes said explicitly, that "we" are amateurs and without providing the information and sources that would back up his "authoritative" assertions and educate us.

With DominicJ it has been, as I wrote earlier, been about his false facts. How should one respond to a false fact? Once said, a false fact can become a reality in people's mind and be repeated as a truth. We see it with false newspaper stories. We see it with climate change deniers. How can one counter such disinformation?

As regards congratulating ourselves for our "tolerance in not banning them", well as someone who has talked about not banning in this thread I'm wondering whether that is aimed at me or includes me. To clarify what I said, I wouldn't vote to ban anyone on two levels: I believe in free speech (and that every soul is redeemable) and, most pertinently here, it is not my forum so not my place to ban anyone.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 25 Feb 2009, 21:36

Food,

It's exactly the JUDGEMENT of people like yourself who make this site irritating for people like myself, Dominic and RGR.

Who are YOU to say Dominic espouses false facts?
And Who are YOU to slag off RGR because he comes on here and says he's an expert.

Well here's a clue: None of the people on here ARE experts.

Even Cliff who is an editor at oildrum which gives him some "status" on the topic of peak oil, doesn't even work in the oil industry.

Guess what? Of the three main people who disagree with the groupthink on this site (me, Dominic and RGR) exactly two of us work in the oil industry. Me and RGR.

Hmmmmm do you see a pattern there perhaps?

Prono 007 · Post by **Prono 007** » 25 Feb 2009, 21:36

fifthcolumn wrote:we have the very British (European?) idea that "the gubbment will save us".

Count me out on that one.

I don't think the gubbment will save us at all. I think the gubbment will make things much, much worse

Count me in.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 25 Feb 2009, 21:40

Prono 007 wrote:
fifthcolumn wrote:we have the very British (European?) idea that "the gubbment will save us".
Count me out on that one.

I don't think the gubbment will save us at all. I think the gubbment will make things much, much worse
Count me in.

Good so are you getting slagged for your other points of view then or what?

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 25 Feb 2009, 21:49

FC,

Have I ever even disagreed with you? No, because you are willing to engage in reasoned argument (with others as it happens).

CountingDown · Post by **CountingDown** » 25 Feb 2009, 22:00

eatyourveg wrote:
Having reflected on that thought, I imagine that is because most PO'ers have their head in a totally different place from the general populace, and don't always realise the size of the gulf - and it is sizeable.

I find myself holding my tongue quite frequently when out and about in the 'normal' world. We do inhabit quite a different planet compared to the general population, everything is differently coloured.

That's the challenge isn't it - walking around in a world which you suddenly see as so transient, filled with people whose concerns and lifestyle seem so superficial. hard to stay civil sometimes.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 25 Feb 2009, 22:04

foodinistar wrote:FC,

Have I ever even disagreed with you? No, because you are willing to engage in reasoned argument (with others as it happens).

Well to be fair, I have been a bit sarky to others in the past and I was threatened with being booted.

No, you have not ever even disagreed with me.

But in any event, I like the site better now that there are a few others who more or less agree with me and if we can keep the name calling and the "you're an idiot and a knownuff" down to a minimum I think we have a chance of having a much more constructive site than more or less any other on the internet.