A Farm for the Future BBC2

treaclemine · Post by **treaclemine** » 21 Feb 2009, 18:51

puscat wrote:"Done. 20 posts there now."

I've just accidentally posted twice, because I didn't twig that new posters on moderation - so many more people may have posted than have yet been published.

1100+ members on this forum, how about cross-posting to the It's Not Easy Being Green forum?

stumuz · Post by **stumuz** » 21 Feb 2009, 19:38

This was indeed a very good film. From a PO perspective it showed the usual suspects talking depletion, Colin Campbell, Leggett, Heinberg et al. However, I have become a bit case hardened to what they say.

The bit I found most disturbing was the seagulls following the ploughing tractor and 20 years hence, no seagulls when the tractor ploughs. I had always assumed that the reason for soil infertility on large farms was monoculture, pesticides and artificial nitrogen based fertiliser. Sometimes it is a picture that leads to a road to Damascus moment.

Now for an apology. I have slated permaculture numerous times on this forum, viewing the participants as left wing, anti nothing vegetarians, but from an energy perspective and the more important eco system point of view, I was wrong and they were right.

So, I have spent most of last night and today reading up on permaculture. However, I have found that taking PO principles into account the house is 70% there, which leaves the south facing part to be passihaus’d. Zone 0 is well under way.
The polytunnel has been ordered and will be located 2 metres from the back door. Zone 1 is the next challenge. We then start on the two acres. Its going to be a challenge.

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 21 Feb 2009, 20:20

stumuz wrote:This was indeed a very good film. From a PO perspective it showed the usual suspects talking depletion, Colin Campbell, Leggett, Heinberg et al. However, I have become a bit case hardened to what they say.

The bit I found most disturbing was the seagulls following the ploughing tractor and 20 years hence, no seagulls when the tractor ploughs. I had always assumed that the reason for soil infertility on large farms was monoculture, pesticides and artificial nitrogen based fertiliser. Sometimes it is a picture that leads to a road to Damascus moment.

Now for an apology. I have slated permaculture numerous times on this forum, viewing the participants as left wing, anti nothing vegetarians, but from an energy perspective and the more important eco system point of view, I was wrong and they were right.

So, I have spent most of last night and today reading up on permaculture. However, I have found that taking PO principles into account the house is 70% there, which leaves the south facing part to be passihaus’d. Zone 0 is well under way.
The polytunnel has been ordered and will be located 2 metres from the back door. Zone 1 is the next challenge. We then start on the two acres. Its going to be a challenge.

Good man Stumuz! Permaculture's great. I highly recomend a read of Bill Mollison's original permaculture book. Its the essence of what the farming program was about. Copying nature, working with it, forest productivity with no management etc, but with his original down to earth, but very caring observations.

The tractor bit really freaked me out too. Farmer up the road ploughed last week. No birds. He seeded yesterday. Only a couple of crows. The land is dead. Damn shame. In my field next door I have deer, rabbits, foxes, chickens, bees etc etc. Polytunnel frame is up. Sheeting on order. Fencing up round what will be a perennial/annual veg garden (I would miss annual veg like carrots and potatoes).

Toughest thing about permaculture? Observing and not doing. The urge to see progress and make a start is so strong these days.

"Protracted thoughtful observation rather than prolonged thoughtless action". It pays in the end though.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 21 Feb 2009, 20:48

I too was moved by the "dead field" footage: it reminded me of the time I was on a train just North of here and saw, for the first time in my life, waves of soil being blown off a newly-ploughed field.

But what a lot of cultural baggage people are going to have to ditch: the word "Arable" means "can-be-ploughed", and (for religious types) the curse given to Adam was "have to work hard in the fields all day". We have a whole culture which tells us we're supposed to mess the land up because we're human and that's what humans do. It's all complete bollocks, but think of the "stranded assets" were we to wisely ditch it!

The worst thing of all about that programme is it has really made me want to get my hands on a patch of land. This is not a normal character trait for an urban type like me and I find it deeply worrying.

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 21 Feb 2009, 21:19

SunnyJim wrote:Polytunnel frame is up. Sheeting on order.

I have my sheeting, but we're still trying to decide the best way to build a frame. Any advice? Dave wants to go the DIY route. What did you do?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 21 Feb 2009, 21:32

First really nice weather today so spent the day in the vegetable beds tidying up, removing unwanted weeds but being careful to leave clover wherever it would not be seriously in the way to fix nitrogen, and deep rooted things like docks to lift minerals from teh lower layers of the soil.

WolfattheDoor · Post by **WolfattheDoor** » 21 Feb 2009, 21:34

We've had "It's not Easy Being Green" recently and also "The Victorian Farm". Wouldn't it be marvellous if they could do a similar thing creating a permaculture farm?

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 21 Feb 2009, 21:38

2nd hand are cheap.
I bought 2 x 50' x 15' and 1 x 30' x 20' for £100.
Check out ebay etc. I got mine from a nursery that was closing down. They are missing the poles that go into the ground that support the arches, but that can be got round with cut up scaffold pipes.
There are other methods involving that blue polypipe stuff, but you are better off getting hold of metal if you can.
Buy a few covers, although you can get 7-8 years from them, what do you think the cost will be in 7-8 years?
Store unused covers out of sunlight.

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 21 Feb 2009, 23:10

Tess wrote:
SunnyJim wrote:Polytunnel frame is up. Sheeting on order.
I have my sheeting, but we're still trying to decide the best way to build a frame. Any advice? Dave wants to go the DIY route. What did you do?

ebay. Got a huge frame. Tunnel will be 30ft x 72ft. I want to grow peach trees, passionfruit and figs in it. All perennial you notice

Will also grow others based on research from a few books I ordered late last night....

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 22 Feb 2009, 00:33

eatyourveg wrote:They are missing the poles that go into the ground that support the arches, but that can be got round with cut up scaffold pipes.
There are other methods involving that blue polypipe stuff, but you are better off getting hold of metal if you can.

We searched around for spare scaffold pipes but couldn't find any at reasonable prices. Dave's now arguing that we should consider wooden support poles buried in concrete since we have plenty of wood. He figures go for the plastic pipe stuff for the arch. Personally I'm slightly dubious, but Dave wont let me spend any money when he thinks he can do it for bugger all cost.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » 22 Feb 2009, 02:16

Tess wrote:Dave wont let me spend any money when he thinks he can do it for bugger all cost.

Oh, that sounds like me! As a result the house is full of half finished jobs.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 22 Feb 2009, 08:03

There's a very encouraging collection of comments accumulating on the BBC message board at http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview ... ad=6345097

SunnyJim · Post by **SunnyJim** » 22 Feb 2009, 09:30

Tess wrote:
eatyourveg wrote:They are missing the poles that go into the ground that support the arches, but that can be got round with cut up scaffold pipes.
There are other methods involving that blue polypipe stuff, but you are better off getting hold of metal if you can.
We searched around for spare scaffold pipes but couldn't find any at reasonable prices. Dave's now arguing that we should consider wooden support poles buried in concrete since we have plenty of wood. He figures go for the plastic pipe stuff for the arch. Personally I'm slightly dubious, but Dave wont let me spend any money when he thinks he can do it for bugger all cost.

Then sell it to him as the investment it really is. It's the place where you'll bring on your seedlings. It will provide you with tomatos in abundance etc. I would say that it is kind of the heart of a garden. Obviously one day we'll have to have big green houses again when we can't get plastic, but till then they are essential for making a long season and enjoying foods of warmer climates.....you can also keep a sheep in there if pressed. It can also stop tools going rusty, so you could keep your scythe, spades, hoes, rakes, axes etc in there if you don't have a decent workshop or shed.

marknorthfield · Post by **marknorthfield** » 22 Feb 2009, 20:02

I've just been reading through the comments on FFTF and noticed the following message:

'Yes, I couldn't help noticing a lot of entries on this thread (about half) are from first-time posters lobbying for follow-up material to be aired.

My advice, if the intent is to influence future BBC programmes on the subject, would be to contact the Beeb directly - by email for example - since the Beeb takes virtually no notice of what's said on these Messageboards.'

How true this is, I wouldn't know, having only just posted my first message on a BBC messageboard. Haha.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 22 Feb 2009, 20:27

Well 'twas me that started that thread, in response to a suggestion on TOD from the Tim Green, the film's maker, who said this was the one place that the powers that be in the Beeb do actually look at.

Anyway, it's nice to see so many positive comments on the Beeb's message board.