Lessons from the Australian fires

[WolfattheDoor]

Watching the news today of the tragic fires in Australia, one thing that did strike me (in a peak oil framework) is the vulnerability of houses.

Many of these people spent hundreds of thousands and many years on building up their houses and, in a few hours, it's all been lost. Fires, earthquakes, floods, riots, accidents. It may not be common for a house to be lost but it can happen and then all that time and money is lost. (At the moment you can get insurance but, in the future...)

It seems rather worrying when contemplating the problems to come, to spend so much of your valuable assets (time, money and energy) on such a vulnerable thing. Unlike a boat or caravan, you can't move it out of the way of the danger.

[JohnB]

Having got used to living in a small space, and visited a few simple low impact homes, I think my attitude to houses has changed. I would love to live in something a lot simpler and cheaper than a conventional house, although something passive solar with high levels of insulation may push up the building time and cost. I'm also not attached to expensive furniture and other stuff any more. We should probably be getting back to housing being shelter rather than a status symbol, and building what's appropriate for a particular location, rather than thinking we're superior to nature.

[RenewableCandy]

It seems rather worrying when contemplating the problems to come, to spend so much of your valuable assets (time, money and energy) on such a vulnerable thing. Unlike a boat or caravan, you can't move it out of the way of the danger.

I can sort of see your point but it's sleeting outside and I at least am bloody grateful for a decent substantial house. We are far away from the nearest Aussie with a grudge and a box of matches, and everyone knows no-one (except Russians ) riots in the sleet.

[kenneal - lagger]

Some lessons:-

One of the problems of building with wood is that it burns well.

Trees should not be planted or maintained less than their eventual height and a half from the house. They can both burn down and blow down and their roots can cause problems in the wrong sort of soil.

Tin roofs transmit heat, both sun and wildfire into the house.

Use fireproof insulation especially in vulnerable situations.

Uninsulated houses transmit heat both inwards and outwards.

If you live in areas with high resin content trees or areas with large amounts of understorey growth, maintain good firebreaks around your house, especially if its timber built.

Keep a bloody great tank of water in the loft.

Build what you can afford to replace and if you're replacing now build it heavy weight.

Look at what the indigenous people build with because it has proved suitable for the location over eons. Most aborigines live in benders or light shelters that they can leave in case of wild fires or when drought kills off the local food supply. (might be more apt in the future)


Anyone got anything to add to that list?

[Erik]

Are there ever any wildfires in the UK? It's a problem in Spain, Australia etc. but how relevant/useful is it to dedicate precious doomtime to this subject in the UK? (Sounds like good advice from Kenneal though, anyway, but for all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with wildfires!)

[WolfattheDoor]

My point was not so much about whether wildfires would occur in the UK (although, with climate change, that might yet happen) but how vulnerable a house can be. People spend more on houses than anything else and it can all be wiped out in hours.

Here in the UK floods seem to be more of a problem and many have lost everything in the last few years and, if things do break down in the future, riots and criminal gangs could acheive the same thing.

We obviously need somewhere to live but I wonder sometimes just how much time, effort and money we should be ploughing into this area.

[biffvernon]

There was an article in New Scientist about fires a few months ago. The gist of it was that all Kenneal's sound sounding advice comes to nought in some real fires. What happens, if I remember, is that a lot of unburnt but inflammable gas, a mixture of carbon monoxide and volatile hydrocarbons from the biomass, can be generated in a big fire when the oxygen runs low. This gas is usually lifted up and burns as a relatively harmless flame when it meets oxygen aloft. But with a high wind speed the unburnt gas can be pushed sideways and then only catch fire at some distance from the main fire when sufficient oxygen has mixed and there's a flashover or ignition from a spark. This phenomenon allows the fire to jump wide firebreaks and accounts for the fireman's comment on the news media yesterday that if you can see the flames you're too late. And as we are seeing in the pictures, what materials the house is made of is not very important. All that will be left is pieces of mangled metal and masonry.

[JohnB]

From a bit I caught on the radio yesterday, it's hot ashes landing on the house roof that are the problem. Unless someone is up on the roof with a hosepipe, the house is toast.

[DominicJ]

Does slate/tile burn?

I can see the threat of wild fire if you live in a heavily wooded area and/or have a wooden home, but I'm not sure its a problem in the UK, even if we get a spanish climate, do we have that many houses built near trees?
Or that many connected woodlands?

[PS_RalphW]

I was leading a group of conservation volunteers about eight years ago, clearing undergrowth on a local ancient densive ditch (about four miles long) in March.

We burned the brush on a bonfire. A spark set of some dry grass, and by the time the fire brigade got there, 100 metres of the monument's grass covering was burnt to a crisp.

[skeptik]

Are there ever any wildfires in the UK? It's a problem in Spain, Australia etc. but how relevant/useful is it to dedicate precious doomtime to this subject in the UK?

Oh Yes. Late summer '76. I was on holiday in Wales with a gang of mates. Felt like the whole place was on fire. Down in the valley at the rented cottage we could see smoke coming up off the hills in all directions. The peat was burning. What finally put the fires out was a massive break in the weather - thunderstorms and torrential rain, fortunately right at the end of our stay.

[OrraLoon]

Are there ever any wildfires in the UK? It's a problem in Spain, Australia etc. but how relevant/useful is it to dedicate precious doomtime to this subject in the UK?

Oh Yes. Late summer '76. I was on holiday in Wales with a gang of mates. Felt like the whole place was on fire. Down in the valley at the rented cottage we could see smoke coming up off the hills in all directions. The peat was burning. What finally put the fires out was a massive break in the weather - thunderstorms and torrential rain, fortunately right at the end of our stay.

Ah, the Meibion Glyndwr boys. Socially responsible firebugging in a cold climate.

[adam2]

Does slate/tile burn?

I can see the threat of wild fire if you live in a heavily wooded area and/or have a wooden home, but I'm not sure its a problem in the UK, even if we get a spanish climate, do we have that many houses built near trees?
Or that many connected woodlands?

Slate and tile are not combustible, BUT roofs covered in these materials are not entirely safe from fire. In a high wind, glowing embers can be blown upwards between/under the tiles or slates and start a fire within the roof structure. Such fires are challenging to extinguish since water directed onto the outside of the roof will do no good.

Brittish stlye tiled or slated roofs are however much safer the than typical American construction (which may also be used in Australia)
In the USA roofs are of a much shallower pitch, and are generly covered with plywood, this is made watertight by affixing asphalte shingles, which are pieces of roofing felt, fixed with nails or adhesive, The shingles overlap like tiles or slates.
Such roofs are a considerable fire risk, the shallow pitch means that wind blown embers dont slide or roll off the roof, and the asphalte shingles are combustible.
Metal roofing, over plywood is sometimes used and is much safer.

Most UK locations have relativly little risk of large scale fires, though I would still favour brick/concrete/stone construction over timber.
As others point out, one can at present insure against loss by fire, but not perhaps in the future.

[biffvernon]

If the normal atmosphere is replaced by a carbon monoxide/VOC mix it doesn't matter a jot what building materials are used. Everything becomes toast in a flash.

[Bandidoz]

Are there ever any wildfires in the UK?

Last one I remember was in the New Forest in 1988.

WRT Aus, one issue they have is trees that ooze flammable vapour (e.g. Eucalyptus) which I imagine causes fires to spread very quickly. Another is that I've heard that in some places (Western Australia) woodland is managed with open corridors and controlled burn, whereas in Victoria they, erm, don't.