Why is there no popular movement to abolish freemasonry?

[UndercoverElephant]

If I was magically put in charge of the UK, one of the first things I would do would be to criminalise freemasonry, with hefty prison sentences for offenders. I can't think of any one change we could make which would more positively reform the Metropolitan Police, for example. But it obviously goes much further than that. If you want a real "patriarchy", look no further than the Freemasons. And yet feminists never mention them. Why would any Labour voter want the freemasons to continue existing? And yet Labour doesn't mention them. No petitions appear in my inbox asking the government to debate the abolition of freemasonry.

Why? Do people not understand what Freemasonry is? Or do they just not think it matters that much? Or is it suppressed?

[PS_RalphW]

The problem is, freemasons lodges have always been presented as charitable and social associations, related to a particular kind of work, like rotary clubs, or working men’s clubs. These quite legally have closed, private memberships, and could easily be forums for illegal activities, with it being very difficult to identify what is said or done behind closed doors. It could be argued that any sort of organisations , even bridge clubs or knitting circles, have equal potential for hosting illegal activity, and so should be regulated with open membership lists and all discussions publicly documented. That would be deeply unpopular and would simply move illegal associations to private encrypted social media groups, which has probably already happened.

[adam2]

I suspect that most of the population do not much care about freemasonry.
I have known several freemasons and all seemed to be decent people.
I seriously considered becoming a freemason, but decided against it.

[clv101]

I have a friend who's a freemason, he's a really decent, honest, straight forward kind of guy. I don't see how the Freemasons are objectively worse than many other groupings of people.

[UndercoverElephant]

I have a friend who's a freemason, he's a really decent, honest, straight forward kind of guy. I don't see how the Freemasons are objectively worse than many other groupings of people.

They are directly involved in serious perversion of the course of justice. This is the primary purpose for their existence. You did not know this?

[Mark]

I have a friend who's a freemason, he's a really decent, honest, straight forward kind of guy. I don't see how the Freemasons are objectively worse than many other groupings of people.

They are directly involved in serious perversion of the course of justice. This is the primary purpose for their existence. You did not know this?

Like you UE, I'm instinctively very 'anti' Freemasonry..... I've read several books on the subject, and there have been many cases of justice not being done because the judge/copper/lawyer were Masons... or 'dodgy' business deals that have been concluded....., or planning permissions that have been miraculously granted... I also don't like the quasi religious ceremonies, the silly dressing up and the 'men only' membership...

However, I've also worked very closely with a Mason and my experience was the same as clv101's. He's a really decent, honest, straight forward guy who happens to work in purchasing (very susceptible to influence), but would never play the 'Mason' card at work..... Regarding the charitable aspect, he always says that Masonic donations are strictly anonymous, so the general public don't know how much they donate (apparently very significant sums) and where to (which is really how charity donations should work, no ?) He also laments that the Masons are really struggling for young members - it's very much 'out of fashion' and Lodges are apparently closing or merging as the older Masons die off... I would guess that also means that Masonic influence is steadily on the decline as well ??

NOTE - All comments are my personal opinions/prejudice/experience, so are totally unscientific.

[kenneal - lagger]

When my wife was security vetted for a government job one of the questions was, "Are you a spy?"

Can you imagine a private members club set up for what ever reason answering the question, "Does your group have any criminal intent?" or similar question by saying "Yes"?

How do you make a law to make illegal any particular private members group? And do so without them being able to set up another group with the same intentions somewhere else the next week?

It is possible to make a terrorist organisation illegal so if such a group could be declared a terrorist organisation they could be banned but, in my opinion, the Masons can hardly be described as a terrorist group.

My Dad was a mason and a police constable for much of his service so I am obviously biased in saying that he was a good man who worked very hard for us and for the charitable works of his lodge. He did ask me if I wanted to join but I declined and have no regrets in doing so.

I have also known someone who was a member of a similar grouping, the name of which I can't remember, and he was also a trustworthy and good man. I would think that anyone who wished to set up a group with ulterior motives would make sure that it was definitely not known to the general public and certainly not known to the security services. I know that some people use the Masons to promote their own interests but how many other people use a group that they belong to for their own interests?

[BritDownUnder]

Masons and the 'Met' is a bit 1980s in my opinion.

You would have to prove it is a criminal organisation to ban it. I am not sure how many criminal organisations are banned in the UK or how organisations are defined to be criminal. I think some political and religious organisations are banned but not social organisations. For some background on difficulties in an Australian context the governments here are having trouble banning 'outlaw motorcycle gangs' such as the Hells Angels and some with even stranger names. Read about the NZ experience of Maori gangs if you have time as well - they are unbannable over there as they are so entrenched in society.

When I first went to Australia I was invited to the Rotary Club BBQ by the higher ups in the company I joined. It was held at a very nice property on a elevated position in town with a great view. People could not stop talking to each other about giving their money away. I figured that since I had no money (to speak of) to give away I had no business in being in this club.

If successful I think you would get a sudden rise in the number of men's crossword clubs.

[dustiswhatweare]

People do like to join things, legal, anti-social, social, a bit stupid or just for fun. And they may start one way and end up another. No stopping any of it unless it becomes overtly anti or pro something or other which draws the ire of enough people and something gets done about it. Clearly not enough people find freemasonry gets enough in the way of their lives to do something about it. Personally I have never given it any thought at all, perhaps they should be trying harder to piss me off.
My local town has Men in Sheds Club. Sounds innocent enough, but what are they really getting up to?

[Potemkin Villager]

My local town has Men in Sheds Club. Sounds innocent enough, but what are they really getting up to?

Not to mention cliquey community garden groups. What is it they are growing that they keep so quiet about?

I wonder why UE seems to have such a bee in his bonnet about Freemasons?

[UndercoverElephant]

I wonder why UE seems to have such a bee in his bonnet about Freemasons?

I place a high priority on things like truth and justice. Some people may say "on balance I don't see why they do more harm than good". It doesn't look that way to me because I am particularly concerned about the variety of harm they do. Corruption in the police and judiciary is bad news.

I realise not everybody sees it like I do. That is why I asked the question.

[Mark]

Article from 2018....

Integrity or influence? Inside the world of modern Freemasons:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... freemasons

There are about six million Freemasons around the world, about 200,000 of them in England and Wales. That means there’s been a drop in membership of about 150,000 in England and Wales in the last 20 years.

[Potemkin Villager]

OK UE says "Do people not understand what Freemasonry is?". Well I don't really apart from it being
a male networking organisation a bit like a super golf club. So can UE give us a thumb nail sketch of
what he understands and what that understanding is based on?

I agree with other postings that outlawing social groups and organisations is a slippery slope and it usually ends in witch hunts.

There is also the very tricky business as to who is to enforce it and identify the bad actors without fear or favour. By your reckoning the current state organs responsible ( the old bill, DPP, legal profession and judiciary) are totally compromised so it would require some sort of untouchables with sweeping powers to implement maybe a house committee on unBritish activities?

[invalid]

Greer has written quite extensively on the freemasons, and their origins. Though, I think on the ground in the UK it might look a bit different. There does seem to be a conservative tone to the organisation.

Re: charitable donations are surely meant to be anonymous. However, I've seen many the local newspaper article here trumpeting a masonic donation, which does put me off slightly.

[UndercoverElephant]

Greer has written quite extensively on the freemasons, and their origins. Though, I think on the ground in the UK it might look a bit different. There does seem to be a conservative tone to the organisation.

Re: charitable donations are surely meant to be anonymous. However, I've seen many the local newspaper article here trumpeting a masonic donation, which does put me off slightly.

Modern freemasonry is a very different beast to the original organisation. It began as an occult/mystical organisation. This inevitably attracted the "wrong sort" of people -- people who desired occult power for their own selfish reasons rather than for spiritual reasons. All that is left of that original purpose is an empty shell. Freemasonry is now all about self-promotion at the expense of non-masons.

see: https://www.DODGY TAX AVOIDERS.co.uk/Secret-Teachin ... 1585422509