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EU Basic Income
Posted: 07 Jan 2014, 21:11
by biffvernon
Support EU basic income
https://ec.europa.eu/citizens-initiativ ... c/index.do
Subject matter:
Asking the Commission, to encourage cooperation between the Member States (according to Art 156 TFEU) aiming to explore the Unconditional Basic Income (UBI) as a tool to improve their respective social security systems.
Main objectives:
In the long run the objective is to offer to each person in the EU the unconditional right as an individual, to having his/her material needs met to ensure a life of dignity as stated by the EU treaties, and to empower participation in society supported by the introduction of the UBI. In the short term, initiatives such as “pilot‐studies“ (Art 156 TFEU) and examination of different models of UBI (EP resolution 2010/2039(INI) §44) should be promoted by the EU.
Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 10:03
by emordnilap
In principle a good idea which I support.
I can't help wondering whether reducing everything to a money value is the right way to go. A rights-based approach might be better: the right to freedom from harm, a right to adequate water, health, nutrition and shelter.
Maybe this is a step along the way to that. Maybe not. I'm with Vandana Shiva when she says the people need the right to food - not merely the right to buy food.
Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 16:08
by RenewableCandy
Well I have the right to proceed safely on my bike as long as I follow the Rules of the Road. But by itself that's b***er-all help in the face of other people's carelessness with ton-up metal objects: still have to be careful! The bloke in Life of Brian had the right to have babies: doesn't help much if you haven't got he wherewithal.
Though a great admirer of Vandana Shiva, I think that, coming from where we are right now, the money's a good start. It's easier to verify, and what's more there are already some people in relatively high places who agree with the idea, meaning it stands a chance.
Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 16:22
by emordnilap
RenewableCandy wrote:Well I have the right to proceed safely on my bike
Interesting. Where's this written down?
Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 20:02
by RenewableCandy
One just jalouses it on the grounds that nowhere is it forbidden by law.
Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 20:39
by odaeio
Actually R.C., that was indeed something that came out in a high court case! Can't remember the exact wording, but - and it was something to do with boat mooring - the judge found for the defendant in that the wording had to do with "unlawfully moored", but for something to be "unlawful" it had to contravene a specific "law". Just because there was no law which specifically "allowed" it, did not mean that it was "unlawful".
Posted: 08 Jan 2014, 20:43
by RenewableCandy
Yes, that's why they have to spend so much effort identifying and defining all those tax dodges which, though not illegal, are, erm, nevertheless tax dodges. It's a 2-edged, erm, thingie.
Posted: 09 Jan 2014, 09:56
by biffvernon
emordnilap wrote:RenewableCandy wrote:Well I have the right to proceed safely on my bike
Interesting. Where's this written down?
Here: If it harms none, do as you will.
And it's been written down before.
Posted: 09 Jan 2014, 11:06
by emordnilap
RenewableCandy wrote:Though a great admirer of Vandana Shiva, I think that, coming from where we are right now, the money's a good start. It's easier to verify, and what's more there are already some people in relatively high places who agree with the idea, meaning it stands a chance.
I agree - as I said, a money solution may be a step. But a right to food, water, shelter, freedom from harm should be the real aim.
Money - your own or other peoples' - can be spent on booze, cigarettes, bookies, etc.