EU membership referendum debate thread

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 26 Jun 2016, 23:34

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ce-him-out

Corbyn to hold crisis talks as Labour MPs try to force him out

Come down from your cross JC - we need the timber.

It's time JC and his cronies realised that the majority of the terminally bewildered 'Brexiteers' are looking for a new messiah to follow.

Someone with big tits who regularly appears on page 3 perhaps?

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 26 Jun 2016, 23:38

3rdRock wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -and-wales

Racist incidents feared to be linked to Brexit result

..... In Gloucester, Max Fras said he was in a Tesco supermarket on Friday night with his young son when a white man became agitated in the queue for the checkout and began yelling: “This is England now, foreigners have 48 hours to **** right off. Who is foreign here? Anyone foreign?”

Fras said the man began quizzing people in the queue about where they were from. “He pointed at another gentleman in front of him and said: ‘Where are you from, are you Spanish? Are you Italian? Are you Romanian?’ And he said ‘No, I’m English’,” said Fras.

Fras, a Polish consultant in European educational projects who lives in London, said he was concerned about what incidents like this might mean for those like him who have moved from the EU to Britain.
Is this the (Dis)united Kingdom that many of these illiterate low-life 'Brexiteers' were hoping for?

I'm ashamed to be English.

You are obviously not illiterete, but with comments like that, I'm ashamed you're English too.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 26 Jun 2016, 23:39

3rdRock wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ce-him-out

Corbyn to hold crisis talks as Labour MPs try to force him out
Come down from your cross JC - we need the timber.

It's time JC and his cronies realised that the majority of the terminally bewildered 'Brexiteers' are looking for a new messiah to follow.

Someone with big tits who regularly appears on page 3 perhaps?

You really don't like real proper democracy do you 3rd rock? It's actually quite entertaining to see the pained disbelief in your posts that the plebs have actually had a real democratic chance to have their views met in democratic way.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 26 Jun 2016, 23:46

johnhemming2 wrote:None will.

They might not agree to that entire list, but the situation is not that simple. What the EU absolutely does not want is a situation where the uncertainty about the future of British relationship with the EU is unresolved for years. And there is now talk of not issuing an Article 50 notice until next summer...a whole year of "pre-negotiations", during which time the 2 year clock before the EU can kick the UK out hasn't even started. This leaves the EU authorities stuck between a rock and a hard place. The rock is allowing the UK the sort of deal BJ is talking about in that article, and the hard place is the UK Brexit crisis dragging on for years as the UK government never quite gets around to issuing the Article 50 notice because it is yet to get assurances about what sort of deal it will get!

The EU has been hoist by its own petard. This situation is, for them, a complete nightmare. And the reason for this is that they were so utterly arrogant that it never occured to them that this situation would ever arise.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 27 Jun 2016, 00:04

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... article-50

So we have an impasse, and a total f***-up. The UK won't want to to issue the Article 50 until informal negotiations have taken place so that we have some idea what sort of deal we might get, but the EU won't want to take part in any informal negotiations and want the UK to issue the Article 50 yesterday.

It is strongly not in the interest of either side to back down from that position. The EU wants the article 50 triggered so it has a guarantee it can get rid of the UK after two years, regardless of how the negotitations go (putting the trump cards in its hands, because the UK has to agree to some sort of a deal before the clock runs out). But so long as the the UK does not trigger article 50 then it remains part of the EU, and the longer that situation persists without any negotiations then the EU is stuck in a state of paralysis, while malcontents all over north-west Europe threaten to hold referendums of their own.

So now we need a General Election in the UK where the key question is whether or not to trigger article 50 without informal negotiations taking place, and UKIP will presumably fight that election and it is highly likely it will take a significant number of votes from both the tories and labour. Which leads us where, exactly? A deeply hung parliament. And then what?

What an almighty mess. That's what you get for spinning seriously huge piles of lies.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2016, 06:23

woodburner wrote:
3rdRock wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... -and-wales

Racist incidents feared to be linked to Brexit result

..... In Gloucester, Max Fras said he was in a Tesco supermarket on Friday night with his young son when a white man became agitated in the queue for the checkout and began yelling: “This is England now, foreigners have 48 hours to **** right off. Who is foreign here? Anyone foreign?”

Fras said the man began quizzing people in the queue about where they were from. “He pointed at another gentleman in front of him and said: ‘Where are you from, are you Spanish? Are you Italian? Are you Romanian?’ And he said ‘No, I’m English’,” said Fras.

Fras, a Polish consultant in European educational projects who lives in London, said he was concerned about what incidents like this might mean for those like him who have moved from the EU to Britain.
Is this the (Dis)united Kingdom that many of these illiterate low-life 'Brexiteers' were hoping for?

I'm ashamed to be English.
You are obviously not illiterete, but with comments like that, I'm ashamed you're English too.

You're obviously having difficulty in facing up to the fact that this scurilous election result has given every closet racist in the UK a licence to feel good about themselves.

I'm sure that over the coming months we will witness an unparalled increase in the number of attacks on 'non UK citizens' as these brain dead thugs begin to think that violence towards 'Johnny Foreigner' is now an acceptable blood sport.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2016, 06:42

Little John wrote:
3rdRock wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ce-him-out

Corbyn to hold crisis talks as Labour MPs try to force him out
Come down from your cross JC - we need the timber.

It's time JC and his cronies realised that the majority of the terminally bewildered 'Brexiteers' are looking for a new messiah to follow.

Someone with big tits who regularly appears on page 3 perhaps?
You really don't like real proper democracy do you 3rd rock? It's actually quite entertaining to see the pained disbelief in your posts that the plebs have actually had a real democratic chance to have their views met in democratic way.

The mob voted for change based on UKIP inspired gutter press propaganda and not considered thought.

All of the ills in this country are directly traceable to the corporatist shills in Westminster, banksters and right-wing austerity budgets as you well know, but the 'Brexiteers' bought into the lie that Brussels was to blame for ALL of their misfortunes.

And you call this democracy?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 27 Jun 2016, 07:32

Actually life is mainly people muddling through. We are in a bit more of a muddle at the moment than usual.

Boris Johnson's article is in essence the EEA solution. We would send less money to Europe, but also get less money back. Our net contributions would probably be much the same.

We would not participate in setting the rules, but instead have to follow them.

Actually, to be fair, there is a possibility of suspending some rules as part of the EEA agreement.

That, of course, makes no change to freedom of movement.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2016, 07:46

johnhemming2 wrote:Actually life is mainly people muddling through. We are in a bit more of a muddle at the moment than usual.

Boris Johnson's article is in essence the EEA solution. We would send less money to Europe, but also get less money back. Our net contributions would probably be much the same.

We would not participate in setting the rules, but instead have to follow them.

Actually, to be fair, there is a possibility of suspending some rules as part of the EEA agreement.

That, of course, makes no change to freedom of movement.

Bugger! I wish I'd voted for Brexit now.

BoJo the Clown for PM. Christ, what a prospect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQhpyVdO2Jo

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 27 Jun 2016, 08:02

Just heard an EU spokesman saying that the UK was welcome to rejoin the EU open market, for a fee equal to the current net contribution to the EU funds.

In other words, you can leave or you can stay, no negotiation, but you lose all voting rights and influence regardless.

Of course this is an opening stance.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 27 Jun 2016, 08:19

3rdRock wrote:
Little John wrote:
3rdRock wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ce-him-out
Come down from your cross JC - we need the timber.

It's time JC and his cronies realised that the majority of the terminally bewildered 'Brexiteers' are looking for a new messiah to follow.

Someone with big tits who regularly appears on page 3 perhaps?
You really don't like real proper democracy do you 3rd rock? It's actually quite entertaining to see the pained disbelief in your posts that the plebs have actually had a real democratic chance to have their views met in democratic way.
The mob voted for change based on UKIP inspired gutter press propaganda and not considered thought.

All of the ills in this country are directly traceable to the corporatist shills in Westminster, banksters and right-wing austerity budgets as you well know, but the 'Brexiteers' bought into the lie that Brussels was to blame for ALL of their misfortunes.

And you call this democracy?

You have only a bigoted opinion to support these statements, so do stop being so cross and continually throwing your toys out of your pram.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 27 Jun 2016, 08:20

PS_RalphW wrote:Just heard an EU spokesman saying that the UK was welcome to rejoin the EU open market, for a fee equal to the current net contribution to the EU funds.

In other words, you can leave or you can stay, no negotiation, but you lose all voting rights and influence regardless.

Of course this is an opening stance.

A couple of days ago it was "clear your desk and get off the premisis".

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 27 Jun 2016, 09:01

woodburner wrote:A couple of days ago it was "clear your desk and get off the premisis".

A couple of days ago they were simply asking for article 50 notification to be ASAP. We would be mad to do this. Jeremy Corbyn said we should give notification as fast as possible.

The EU would be entirely happy with the UK being in the EEA and paying the same net contribution. The other countries' governments would have a bit of a chuckle about it.

We would be able to decide what to do with the money that is returned to the UK. Not that this would make a massive difference.

3rdRock · Post by **3rdRock** » 27 Jun 2016, 10:45

woodburner wrote:
3rdRock wrote:
Little John wrote:You really don't like real proper democracy do you 3rd rock? It's actually quite entertaining to see the pained disbelief in your posts that the plebs have actually had a real democratic chance to have their views met in democratic way.
The mob voted for change based on UKIP inspired gutter press propaganda and not considered thought.

All of the ills in this country are directly traceable to the corporatist shills in Westminster, banksters and right-wing austerity budgets as you well know, but the 'Brexiteers' bought into the lie that Brussels was to blame for ALL of their misfortunes.

And you call this democracy?
You have only a bigoted opinion to support these statements, so do stop being so cross and continually throwing your toys out of your pram.

A bigoted opinion to support these statements, eh?

So, as a devoted 'Brexiteer', let's see what you've achieved shall we?

1) You're about to swap a Bullingdon Club smoothie for a Bullingdon Club clown who certainly won't be considering the needs of the folk at the bottom of the pile any time soon.

2) You've given a licence to every wannabe racist to exercise their 'democratic right' to kick the shit out of some poor immigrant, because the tide of public opinion is now, apparently, in favour of recrimination.

3) You've fallen for the oldest political trick in the book, namely, to divide and rule. Blame the poor and disadvantaged, blame the immigrants (who, incidentally won't be leaving any time soon) and blame the EU for all of the austerity measures introduced by a heartless elite that have destroyed any sense of hope or tolerance that used to prevail on this sceptred isle.

4) You've managed to destroy any semblance of a credible political opposiion party by pandering to the fanatical outpourings of UKIP, a right wing organisation who seem to cherish the fact that their numbers include every despicable past and present supporter of the NF, BNP and EDL.

And I'm the bigot?

johnhemming2 · Post by **johnhemming2** » 27 Jun 2016, 10:46

4 isn't right. They do exclude ex members of the National Socialist parties.