Is the mini budget a recipe for doom?

[UndercoverElephant]

And you continue to ignore the elephant in the room, which is that the only reason the pension companies got margin calls was because the pound was crashing, and the reason the pound was crashing was the government has recklessly promised a massive tax cut, mainly for the very rich.

You can refuse to acknowledge the root cause all day, but that won't stop it being the root cause. If the pound had been crashing because of reasons out of the government's control, or because there was some pressing, morally-defensible reason for what they were doing, then maybe you'd have a point, but neither is true. The government caused this situation to occur, and it did so in order to benefit the very rich.

Truss and Kwarteng: "The solution is to cut taxes, especially for rich people. Now, what is the problem?"

.

Chaotic thinking coupled with left wing ideology. A potent brew.

It's neither chaotic nor left wing. Can I remind you that the IMF has just rebuked Kwarteng for precisely what I am accusing him of. Do you think the IMF are chaotic and left wing?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63056417

A sterling slump starting during a budgetary statement is the great terror the Treasury always fears, but never actually happens. Until now.

But even I was taken aback by the interjection of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) in its direct, uncompromising, unflinching and somewhat humiliating criticism of the government's fiscal plan.

Not only did the world's most important international financial institution suggest the plan was economically risky, it said it was likely to increase inequality and recommended taking an "early opportunity" for a re-evaluation of the policies in the coming weeks, on a specific date.

[Potemkin Villager]

So you think there might be another leadership change of the tory party before the next general election?

Boris Johnson is currently only 6-1 as the next PM!

I think the last thing anybody needs is another extended period of political lacuna although politicians
generally seem much happier campaigning or mourning rather than actually doing what they were elected to do. At one point my
better half kept saying, with good reason, how terrible Johnson was and how he had to go. I agreed but pointed out that the choice of
replacements wasn't very inspiring. Now we are finding out just how uninspiring that choice was and I imagine the tory party is damned
if they don't mount a heave against Mstruss and damned if they do. The small matter of a lack of inspiring candidates, all of who are not
anywhere nearly as clever as they think they are, still remains and at this point you would really need to be really crazy to want the job.

I wouldn't mind if just the tory party were damaged but the collateral damage of Britannia Unchained is staggering.

[Stumuz2]

It's neither chaotic nor left wing. Can I remind you that the IMF has just rebuked Kwarteng for precisely what I am accusing him of. Do you think the IMF are chaotic and left wing?

Absolutely! And enforce poverty for ideology.

[Mark]

Anyone see Chris Philp, new Chief Secretary to the Treasury beaten up by Peston last night ?

Not only have these tax cuts for the rich tanked the economy, they're also going to have to be paid for....
We can soon expect cuts to the NHS, Education, Benefits, in fact probably everything apart from the MOD.
So we're about to get worse healthcare, worse education, worse transport, reduced protection for the vulnerable etc. etc...

But don't worry, those on already massive salaries can now happily invest in faster cars, bigger houses, higher fences and better CCTV systems...
Yes Siree, the economy will soon be booming.....

[Mark]

I wouldn't mind if just the tory party were damaged but the collateral damage of Britannia Unchained is staggering.

Can you imagine the hoohah if Labour had caused this crisis.....

Why do the Tories get off so lightly...???
Just because they put well spoken Eton/Oxford educated robots in front of the camera, doesn't mean they know what they're doing....
Where's the limitless talent we were promised at the recent leadership election.....???

[Stumuz2]

Just because they put well spoken Eton/Oxford educated robots in front of the camera, doesn't mean they know what they're doing....

Put the hatred aside. There is quite enough going round without you adding to it.

Do you think the fiat money system is in its death throes?

[Potemkin Villager]

Anyone see Chris Philp, new Chief Secretary to the Treasury beaten up by Peston last night ?

Oh yes such an odious and self important snake oil salesman. You must wonder if he really
believes any of the bollox he comes out with or he is so desperate to be in the cult that he will say
anything and support any unlikely assertion to please the great leader.

Can't think who he reminds me of.

[Mark]

Put the hatred aside. There is quite enough going round without you adding to it.

Do you think the fiat money system is in its death throes?

Sorry, but I do feel anger and hate. I know they're not healthy or constructive emotions, but what else should I feel when the rich, privileged, entitled corrupt elite are sh*tting on the hard working tax paying majority and the weak and vulnerable....

You're a total hypocrite anyway - nobody else (maybe apart from Little John) has spouted more bile on here over the years....
You just don't like it when the mirror is held up in front of you.

To answer your question - at some point yes, but I'm not economically savvy enough to be certain that moment is now....
We're printing way too much money, but isn't it just relative to the rate of printing by other countries ?
Greece, Italy etc. seem to have somehow survived to fight another day...
As the old adage goes - privatise the profits and socialise the losses....

[Stumuz2]

Sorry, but I do feel anger and hate. I know they're not healthy or constructive emotions, but what else should I feel when the rich, privileged, entitled corrupt elite are sh*tting on the hard working tax paying majority and the weak and vulnerable....

That's not healthy. Switch off, go for a walk, plant a garden. There is nothing you can do about decisions over which you have no control.

You're a total hypocrite anyway - nobody else (maybe apart from Little John) has spouted more bile on here over the years....
You just don't like it when the mirror is held up in front of you.

I'll ignore that. More hatred.

To answer your question - at some point yes, but I'm not economically savvy enough to be certain that moment is now....
We're printing way too much money, but isn't it just relative to the rate of printing by other countries ?
Greece, Italy etc. seem to have somehow survived to fight another day...

Well no. Printer in chief is the US. Next is the ECB/Japan/UK.
As long as everyone does it, at about the same rate, the pretence can carry on.

Truss/Kwarteng have just printed X billions to pay the electricty bill, and X billions to bail out peoples pensions. The finance industry know the writing is on the wall. They are not happy.

Austrian economics starts with the principle that currency must be worth something, and that something cannot be printed out of thin air.

[Mark]

The finance industry know the writing is on the wall. They are not happy.

I thought the reason for cutting the limit on bankers bonuses was to appease the finance industry ?
And to lure back some of the snakes who departed for New York, Paris and Frankfurt after Brexit ?

Chickens ? Home ? Roost ?

[Stumuz2]

The finance industry know the writing is on the wall. They are not happy.

I thought the reason for cutting the limit on bankers bonuses was to appease the finance industry ?
And to lure back some of the snakes who departed for New York, Paris and Frankfurt after Brexit ?

Chickens ? Home ? Roost ?

Irrelevant, in the great scheme of things.

The big story, which the press and most financial commentators haven't caught up with yet, is the rejection of Keynesian macroeconomics.
It will only work by cutting public spending, balancing the budget, and reducing the role of the state in the overall economy. A financial holocaust has been triggered.

Austrian macroeconomics is about to hit the west like a cold shower. It was triggered in the UK and will change the world. Unless a change a government is had and the printing press is allowed a few more years until its logical demise.

[BritDownUnder]

Count yourselves lucky if you still have a guaranteed pension fund. Not my actuarial specialty but I would guess funds use gilts to provide reliable and predictable (err well until last week anyway) long term income and capital guarantees. Only my very first UK corporate pension has anything like a guarantee and it is worth more than all the others put together (nominally anyway). One of the actuarial exam questions I recall was about calculating the net yield on a gilt depending on what levels of taxation were charged and turning it around and calculating the expected present value based on desired investment returns and taxation of a gilt. I bet a few of those calcs got done last week.

Only the higher ups have a guaranteed private pension in the UK these days which is probably why the government probably did guarantee them.

[Mark]

LizzieT and KK continue to dismiss what's staring them in the face and think anyone who disagrees is stupid...

The gruesome twosome's crisis talks today with the OBR lasted only 30 mins - shows how interested they are in their opinions...
The OBR report won't now be published until 23rd Nov, by when it will be largely irrelevant anyway ?
Head-in-sand, they plough on regardless.

[Mark]

Irrelevant, in the great scheme of things.

Tax breaks for the already mega wealthy, bigger bonuses for the bankers etc.
In your world we just need to calm down, suck it up and be quiet...?

The stated aim of the 'mini-budget' was to improve growth - we can agree on that ?
Nobody forced LizzieT or KK to do it - we can agree on that ?

So...., 2 simple Qs for you Stumuzz2

Q1. Is the economic shitstorm created this week (quote David Dimbleby) a direct result of 'mini-budget' ?
Preferably a Yes/No answer, but try not to mention Gordon Brown, or elephants, or bent bananas or obscure Austrian economics...

Q2. How will this 'mini-budget' bring about economic growth in an ever more resource constrained country/world ?
(You might need to refer to your notes from the PowerSwitch for Beginners guide here)

[Stumuz2]

So...., 2 simple Qs for you Stumuzz2

Q1. Is the economic shitstorm created this week (quote David Dimbleby) a direct result of 'mini-budget' ?
Preferably a Yes/No answer, but try not to mention Gordon Brown, or elephants, or bent bananas or obscure Austrian economics...

No.

Q2. How will this 'mini-budget' bring about economic growth in an ever more resource constrained country/world ?
(You might need to refer to your notes from the PowerSwitch for Beginners guide here)

If you think Austrian economics is 'Obscure' then a resource constrained world is going to be a challenge!

Putin is as we speak creating a cross border settlement system backed by 'stuff'

Cannot print Putin's currency out of thin air. = Austrian economics.