Identity Politics, Class Warfare and Labour's future

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

The top three are the only ones in it, IMO. It's either going to be Starmer, Long-Bailey or Nandy. Cooper won't pick up enough 2nd and 3rd choice votes, because she's too far to the right economically and too associated with the Blairites, as well as being instrumental in stopping brexit. And the rest of them are joke candidates. Not serious contenders.

Long-Bailey won't pick up many 2nd or 3rd choice votes. She either needs to win on 1st choice votes, or she won't win at all.

I think Starmer is the most likely winner, because he'll pick up the 2nd choice votes of almost everybody apart from Long-Bailey supporters.
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Little John

Post by Little John »

Starmer winning the leadership of the Labour party after its crushing defeat in this election is just about the most hilarious thing I will witness this year. I think I can say that with a high degree of confidence.

Labour, as currently constructed, is dead.
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

Starmer should not be underestimated. He's smart, and may succeed in guiding Labour back towards the centre, where it could pick up enough votes to win in 2024. Although this would likely involve the permanent loss of some "red wall" seats.

I still think Lisa Nandy is best placed to bring the whole Labour coalition back together, but I am skeptical that the Labour membership is wise enough to back her.

If Long-Bailey wins, Labour are truly f***ed. They'll just drift around aimlessly trying to do Corbynism without Corbyn, and lose further ground in 2024. They might even collapse completely.
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Little John

Post by Little John »

You thought Corbyn was "playing a blinder" in acquiescing to the Remain agenda in the PLP and tacking to Remain in terms of Labour's Brexit policy. You thought the working class would just suck it up and vote for Labour irrespective. You think, after all of that, Starmer - a Remainer - is going to be the leader that Labour needs? Oh and lest we forget, you also think the Guardian is just a bit confused in its political reporting and analysis as opposed to what it really is, which is an intelligence service infested gatekeeper to "acceptable" mainstream Left opinion

Are you actually being serious?

Or, are you really as deluded as you are giving a very good impression of being?

I mean, seriously, you are giving every impression of being profoundly detached from the reality of Labour's situation. The only other explanation being that you are a shill for the neo-liberal globalist agenda in the PLP and, in being so, will spin up any old bullshit, no matter how increasingly preposterous, to keep the ship afloat.

To repeat - you think Starmer is just what the doctor ordered for Labour right now?

Starmer?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

F--k me... :lol:
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

My take is that Starmer is one of the best of a bad bunch (Nandy would be better) but also agree with LJ that he is unlikely to win back the Red Wall.

I see him as a kinnock figure. Stabilise the ship and pave the way for a better leader down the line.

Regarding RLB she would be worse than Corbyn. Labour would be f***ed.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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Little John

Post by Little John »

Labour are f***ed anyway and for the the same reason the Democrats are, They are no longer fit for purpose as the controlled opposition they were always intended to be
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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Labour are in a worse position than the Tories were pre Boris; at least they were only split two ways. Labour have their Remainer, largely centre right, Brehrites, then there is Remainer, ultra left wing, Momentum and then their northern voter base of small "c", conservative, working class Brexiteers. How on earth do you get that lot together again.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

The Tories are a fairly pragmatic bunch over all else except Brexit and they seem to have got rid of the ardent Remainers. You only have to look at the "discussion" between our two most prominent left wingers who believe in largely the same things but violently disagree about the details of what they agree with to see the problems the Labour Party have! And that is only a two way discussion!!
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Little John

Post by Little John »

It's just become more complicaed than the mere Left - Right political dimension. That's all. There are now severa political dimensions at play here.

politically authoritarian - politically libertarian
economically Left - economically Right
socially conservative - socially liberal
politically/economically/socially globalist - politically/economically/socially localist

You, Ken, I would wager, are a moderately libertarian, moderately economically Right, socially conservative localist.

I am a moderately libertarian, significantly economically Left, socially conservative localist.

UE, by my estimation, based on his various vacillations, is a bit confused as to what he is. But, I am sure he can speak for himself.
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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

It's good to see, LJ, that we probably have more we agree on than disagree by your estimation. ;-)
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

What the F--k am I than LJ!
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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Little John

Post by Little John »

Lord Beria3 wrote:What the F--k am I than LJ!
:lol:

You tell me LB
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index ... est-rules/

Starmer dropping a bit in the political betting markets.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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Lord Beria3
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Post by Lord Beria3 »

Economically centre-right, semi-populist, socially conservativish/libertarian and anti-interventionist/realpolitik on foreign affairs.
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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Little John

Post by Little John »

Lord Beria3 wrote:Economically centre-right, semi-populist, socially conservativish/libertarian and anti-interventionist/realpolitik on foreign affairs.
As with Ken, there is quite a lot we have in common alongside the obvious differences.
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