What you are implying is interesting but JohnB probably makes the safest guess.Vortex wrote:That is the key question!But surely most of the population are just ordinary people, who want to get on with their lives peacefully, with adequate food and shelter.
Does the Gazan-in-the-street have a Western mind set?
#FreedomFlotilla
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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emordnilap
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I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Why do they need a Western mindset? There were other peaceful civilisations around before we came along. They don't live in the West, so they don't need to be like us, but that doesn't stop them wanting to get on with living and taking care of their families.emordnilap wrote:Does the Gazan-in-the-street have a Western mind set?
You could just as easily be asking, "does the jew have the german mindset?"Vortex wrote:That is the key question!But surely most of the population are just ordinary people, who want to get on with their lives peacefully, with adequate food and shelter.
Does the Gazan-in-the-street have a Western mind set?
Quite what its got to do with treating people humanely is anybodies guess.
Or are you just feeling that they deserve it because "They're not like us".
Still, steal their land, hold them in a giant open prison, abuse them, treat them as second class citizens (seriously, if you ever want to see what israel is really about, examine the pecking order for israeli jews, ashkenazis/european jews, arabs and other goyem) and then berate them to have the temerity to fight back.
Quite apart from the fact that its held that actually bringing supplies into gaza hurts hamas as they seem to have the monopoly on smuggling hard to obtain goods.
We can even ignore the fact that hamas is probably controlled by mossad
(we can debate that one all night if you like).
anyway, I've long considered it but hitherto held my tongue.
Vortex, You truly are a genius at stating the idiotic.
"Does the gazan in the street have a western mind-set ?" - hilarious.
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Aurora
BBC News - 05/06/10
Israel has intercepted the latest aid ship attempting to break its blockade of the Gaza Strip, activists say.
Israeli officials have not commented, but they had warned they would not let the MV Rachel Corrie reach Gaza.
The confrontation comes days after Israeli troops stormed a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, leaving nine people dead and many injured.
Article continues ...
In the Guardian today:
Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range. Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... sy-results
Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range. Nine Turkish men on board Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times, autopsy results reveal
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ju ... sy-results
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Frederick Douglass
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biffvernon
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stumuzz
It’s like swimming through sewage reading some of these anti-Semitic posts. No wonder anti semitism has been called the longest hatred. From the early Greeks to its modern manifestation of hatred of anything Israeli.
Hardly a mention in any posts on powerswitch about the decades-long repression of the civil and political rights of 1.3 billion people in China or the million female migrant workers in Saudi Arabia kept as virtual slaves, reams have been written and studied about their oil, but their female slaves, not a dickie bird. Lets not bring up the virulent racism which has brought 600,000 people to the brink of starvation in Zimbabwe or the Kashmir episode. The genocide in Sudan is just boring.
However, as a supporter of freedom of speech please carry on. You will be joining a well versed chorus of hate spanning centuries, from Shakespeare's Shylock to the nation of islam.
Surely on a utilitarian basis i.e. The greatest good for the greatest number; the boats should turn around and head for China?
Hardly a mention in any posts on powerswitch about the decades-long repression of the civil and political rights of 1.3 billion people in China or the million female migrant workers in Saudi Arabia kept as virtual slaves, reams have been written and studied about their oil, but their female slaves, not a dickie bird. Lets not bring up the virulent racism which has brought 600,000 people to the brink of starvation in Zimbabwe or the Kashmir episode. The genocide in Sudan is just boring.
However, as a supporter of freedom of speech please carry on. You will be joining a well versed chorus of hate spanning centuries, from Shakespeare's Shylock to the nation of islam.
Surely on a utilitarian basis i.e. The greatest good for the greatest number; the boats should turn around and head for China?
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biffvernon
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The thing that distinguishes all those bad things in bad places from the Israeli question (which as fas as I'm concerned is nothing to do with anti-Semitism) is that the UK and USA have, over the years, given a lot of support to the foundation and maintenance of Israel, so we have a particular responsibility to try to exert influence when bad things happen.
But yes, we should rail against all bad things, and some on on your list, Stumuzz have been discussed on PowerSwitch in the past.
But yes, we should rail against all bad things, and some on on your list, Stumuzz have been discussed on PowerSwitch in the past.
Just because there are other equally bad or worse regimes, doesn't mean that Israel shouldn't be called to account for what they're doing. Many of us have protested against these other regimes too.
It is disingenuous, and frankly insulting of you, to conflate disagreeing with the actions of the Israeli state with anti-Semitism.
Furthermore, how do you explain the number of Jewish people who disagree with the Israeli government? Are they, too, anti-Semites ?
It is disingenuous, and frankly insulting of you, to conflate disagreeing with the actions of the Israeli state with anti-Semitism.
Furthermore, how do you explain the number of Jewish people who disagree with the Israeli government? Are they, too, anti-Semites ?
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Frederick Douglass
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2 As and a B
- Posts: 2590
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Warning. Strong stomach required.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INUeHwdRVKg
I got precisely the same reaction from the Israeli government as stumuzz gives when I complained about the breaking of the Palestinians' bones on the hillside, which was shown, in part, on UK TV news. They tried to deflect criticism by drawing an analogy with the British in Northern Ireland. Two wrongs don't make a right, no matter how persuasively the argument is made.
The history behind Israel's broken bones policy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0u3yljaMTg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INUeHwdRVKg
I got precisely the same reaction from the Israeli government as stumuzz gives when I complained about the breaking of the Palestinians' bones on the hillside, which was shown, in part, on UK TV news. They tried to deflect criticism by drawing an analogy with the British in Northern Ireland. Two wrongs don't make a right, no matter how persuasively the argument is made.
The history behind Israel's broken bones policy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0u3yljaMTg
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stumuzz
Expected replies.
Not a mention on how to relieve the suffering in all the other places, just straight in with how bad Israel is and some of my best friends are Jews.
Anti semitism changes subtly over the years e.g. they control the banks, they poison the water, they controlled the slave trade, they lost us the war, yardy yardy yardy.
Face it. You would rather spend your time perpetuating the longest hate than devote an equal amount of time protesting at the saudi use of female slaves.
Not a mention on how to relieve the suffering in all the other places, just straight in with how bad Israel is and some of my best friends are Jews.
Anti semitism changes subtly over the years e.g. they control the banks, they poison the water, they controlled the slave trade, they lost us the war, yardy yardy yardy.
Face it. You would rather spend your time perpetuating the longest hate than devote an equal amount of time protesting at the saudi use of female slaves.
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biffvernon
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That really isn't fair. This thread is about the FreedomFlotilla. If you want to discuss China/Sudan/Zimbabwe/Burma/Manchester that's fine but do it on another thread.stumuzz wrote: Not a mention on how to relieve the suffering in all the other places
This is about the narrowly defined topic of the Israeli blockade of Gaza, it's attempted relief and the actions of the Israeli Army to carry out Israeli government policy.
Stumzz
I don't know why you seem to be saying that people on here think that Jewish people control the banks, poison the water etc. I can only think of one person who has expressed anything approaching this (and was criticised for it) so to imply Powerswitchers think this type of anti-semitic crap is plainly offensive.
In the interests of constructive discussion it'd be useful if you could answer the points posters have made in answer to your first post, rather than throwing around really offensive accusations of anti-semitism.
You haven't answered my point about Jews objecting to the behaviour of the Israeli government. Basically what you're saying is that it is racist to dislike what a government is doing eg if you dislike some action of the Pakistani government you must be racist against all Pakistanis. This is a completely illogical argument.Not a mention on how to relieve the suffering in all the other places, just straight in with how bad Israel is and some of my best friends are Jews.
Anti semitism changes subtly over the years e.g. they control the banks, they poison the water, they controlled the slave trade, they lost us the war, yardy yardy yardy.
Face it. You would rather spend your time perpetuating the longest hate than devote an equal amount of time protesting at the saudi use of female slaves.
I don't know why you seem to be saying that people on here think that Jewish people control the banks, poison the water etc. I can only think of one person who has expressed anything approaching this (and was criticised for it) so to imply Powerswitchers think this type of anti-semitic crap is plainly offensive.
In the interests of constructive discussion it'd be useful if you could answer the points posters have made in answer to your first post, rather than throwing around really offensive accusations of anti-semitism.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Frederick Douglass