Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment

[RenewableCandy]

The other day I overheard a phonecall being answered by our answerphone (I was busy cooking so I left it). It was one of those automatic calls. It struck me that there were 2 machines talking to each other. And that gave me an idea...

[odaeio]

I get Sushil's posts, and many, many others on various forums, but what I have never understood is what is the purpose of the ships captain and cohorts? Why do they so desperately want to be drowned?

I read everything from the Annunaki/Enlil theories, to the Masonic/Religious stuff, to the complete woo-woo stuff about the 7th Dimensional, Galactic Federation of Crystal/Pyramid entities - but not one seems to address the WHY? To what end? What do "they" get out of it?

I think that the fundamental driving force behind the Universe is balance or equilibrium, and the Universe strives for that in every way. Humanity appears to be the only life on this planet that entirely ignores this fundamental, and perhaps is "brainwashed" into forcing the disregard on other humans, to the detriment of not only the planet, but themselves as well - it just doesn't make sense to me.

Sushil, do you have any understanding, or thoughts about this?

[sushil_yadav]

....but what I have never understood is what is the purpose of the ships captain and cohorts? Why do they so desperately want to be drowned?

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity.

Industrial Activity became possible only because of Industrial Machines.

Industrial Machines came into existence because Man was given a brain that could make Industrial Machines.

Human species is a defective species.....Its design is defective.

Man was given a brain that can make Industrial Machines [which have destroyed environment].

But that doesn't mean we have to make Industrial Machines or we should make Industrial Machines....The option of not making machines is always there....The option of stopping is always there.

Industrialization happened because man used his time and energy on reason/ thinking.

If man had continued to spend his time and energy on "Physical Work" or "Subjective Experience", industrialization wouldn't have happened.

How and where we use our energy is fully within our control.

Our energy can be used for "physical work", "mental thinking" or "subjective experience"....We can choose where we want to use it.

We can still stop Industrial Activity by using our energy for physical work and subjective experience.
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The focus on "Reason" has led to destruction of this planet.

The focus on reason led to science, technology and industrialization which have destroyed biodiversity and ecosystems.

It was the focus on "Physical Work" ,"Subjective Experience", Religion and Rituals that saved environment for millions of years on earth.
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Progress, Growth and Development (of the material kind) are / were primarily western concepts which were forced upon rest of the world.

Today the entire world is collectively involved in destruction of environment but the biggest role in this process of destruction was played by Western Civilization.

The West was the first to start Industrial Revolution and travel on the destructive path of Industrialization and Consumerism.......It then forced western lifestyle on its colonies in Asia, Africa and America whose cultures it had already destroyed during the era of Colonization.

The West took the entire world on the wrong path of Industrialization, Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP that has led to destruction of most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems.

[Please note : If Industrial Revolution had been started by any other country/ region, the consequences would have been equally disastrous and destructive....No one should have started Industrial Activity....No one should have promoted Industrial Activity]

The West started Industrial Revolution and promoted Materialism because it focused on "Reason"......The East had focused on "Subjective Experience" for thousands of years which led to "Spiritual Development".

The Aborigines of Australia would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

Red Indians / Native Americans would not have started the Industrial Revolution.

The Africans are very unlikely to have started the Industrial Revolution.

These cultures were quite happy and content with Physical Work, Rituals and Spiritual Practices.

In India people had made efforts for Spiritual Development for thousands of years.....They developed methods and techniques for making the mind quiet, tranquil and peaceful......The knowledge of subjective experience led to the fields of yoga, meditation and pranayam [breath control].......Material Development has destroyed the planet, If any kind of development was needed it was Spiritual Development.

Human work should fulfill the basic needs of food, clothing and shelter.....It should not turn into overwork or destructive work.....If extra time is available to people and society after basic needs have been fulfilled it should be used for Spiritual Practices, Art and Culture.
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Progress, Growth, Development.

This is terminology for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.

Growth Rate - Economy Rate - GDP.

These are figures for all unnecessary and destructive work being done by Urban Population.
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If Urban Society stops its supplies to Rural Society it will live forever.

If Rural Society stops its supplies to Urban Society it will die within a month.

That is the worth of Urban Jobs, Consumer Goods, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP.

For millions of years on earth "Searching for Food" / "Producing Food" was the primary occupation for animal species, hunter_gatherer society and agrarian society.

Urban Industrial Society is the anomaly....It is producing thousands of consumer goods and services instead of food.
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Industrial Revolution should not have been started in the first place.

Once it was started, its destructive impact on environment should have alerted humans and they should have tried to stop Industrial Activity in the initial stages.

If Industrial Activity had been stopped 50 years or 100 years after Industrial Revolution, we could have saved some of the environment.

Trying to save environment after 200/ 250 years of relentless Industrial Activity is like trying to save a person after shooting him 10,000 times.

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[Little John]

No Sushil. You are simply factually incorrect. Or, at least, factually incomplete.

Modern, urban, industrialised society is certainly destroying the rest of life on earth at a faster rate than all previous human civilisations. However, ALL HUMAN CIVILISATIONS, from the very beginning of human civilisations, starting about 10,000 years ago, have been destroying the rest of life on this planet. Stop deluding yourself otherwise.

Indeed, there is even plenty of fossil evidence to suggest we denuded this planet of most of the rest of its large mega fauna many tens of thousands of years before even the advent of civilisation. By and large, throughout our history as a species on this planet and apart from a vanishingly small number of examples of sustainable ecological co-existence, we are the destroyers of life Sushil. Industrial society merely facilitates our destructive nature even more efficiently than hitherto.

[fuzzy]

No Sushil. You are simply factually incorrect. Or, at least, factually incomplete.

Modern, urban, industrialised society is certainly destroying the rest of life on earth at a faster rate than all previous human civilisations. However, ALL HUMAN CIVILISATIONS, from the very beginning of human civilisations, starting about 10,000 years ago, have been destroying the rest of life on this planet. Stop deluding yourself otherwise.

Indeed, there is even plenty of fossil evidence to suggest we denuded this planet of most of the rest of its large mega fauna many tens of thousands of years before even the advent of civilisation. By and large, throughout our history as a species on this planet and apart from a vanishingly small number of examples of sustainable ecological co-existence, we are the destroyers of life Sushil. Industrial society merely facilitates our destructive nature even more efficiently than hitherto.

I think the curve went skyward with the adoption of flush toilets. Thats a lot of wasted rock erosion.

[RenewableCandy]

That is why I gather vraic. To try and offset the loss of minerals.

[kenneal - lagger]

Couldn't have put it better myself, Steve.

[odaeio]

I've been struggling with this for a while, trying to get right back to the fundamentals. Best I've come up with so far is mans use of fire. Seems to me the only life on this planet that cannot survive without an EXTRA external source of energy is man.

Could we not say that the advent of the use of fire was the starting point for all the destructive behaviour that followed?

Do we know when man first started using fire, or are the archeologists still not quite sure?

And thank you for the reply Sushil, I understand and agree with what you say friend.

[kenneal - lagger]

Western civilisation did indeed start the industrial revolution but that, I believe, was a response to the challenges of a more adverse climate and the availability of easily obtained coal combined with a rapid reduction in tree cover, firstly, in the UK. The increased energy density of coal over wood enabled much greater material output from the same labour input. The eventual use of oil, initially in the US, did the same thing again. The rest of the world is now trying to catch up.

The Indian civilisation is having a devastating effect on the natural order in India just by weight of numbers. The Indian population is expanding, unchecked, into every square inch of India including nature reserves. That has nothing to do with western industrial civilisation.

[PS_RalphW]

Hominids have been using fire for up to a million years. Fire almost certainly affected our evolution to modern man. We can eat raw meat but we digest it much more efficiently when it is cooked, and we are very prone to disease from uncooked meat, far more than most other omnivores.

[Little John]

Hominids have been using fire for up to a million years. Fire almost certainly affected our evolution to modern man. We can eat raw meat but we digest it much more efficiently when it is cooked, and we are very prone to disease from uncooked meat, far more than most other omnivores.

Yes, man's mastery of fire is the first example, I think, of our use of energy/resource leverage and so represented the beginning of a journey that led us to here. Our long dependence on fire is, as you suggest, evidenced by our relatively poor evolved capacity to defend ourselves against raw food born pathogens.

[vtsnowedin]

I've been struggling with this for a while, trying to get right back to the fundamentals. Best I've come up with so far is mans use of fire. Seems to me the only life on this planet that cannot survive without an EXTRA external source of energy is man.

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I think humans can live in the sub tropics quite comfortably without any use of fire in places where fruit and shellfish are abundant. Fire just let us expand our range all the way to the arctic. Somewhere along the way we picked up the skill of tanning hides and using them for clothing . and then of spinning fibers into yarns and cordage. The knitting needle maybe one of the worlds all time most important invention.

[RenewableCandy]

I remember contemplating, after the shed-burning-down incident (which coincided with a bout of climate-change-related news at the time: Hurricane Sandy iirc), that the invention of fire was actually not a good piece of progress. We might, taken collectively, be too stupid to handle it.

[vtsnowedin]

I remember contemplating, after the shed-burning-down incident (which coincided with a bout of climate-change-related news at the time: Hurricane Sandy iirc), that the invention of fire was actually not a good piece of progress. We might, taken collectively, be too stupid to handle it.

Why yes the question is still in doubt. we have had a million tears or so to test it out, still quite early.

[RenewableCandy]

Nice typo A million tears, indeed.