Labour Party/government Watch

[emordnilap]

The media campaign against a Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn will be brutal and utterly unrelenting.

Yes.

[Catweazle]

Funny, but the policemen are facing the wrong way.

[johnhemming2]

Although when I rebelled in parliament I was often voting with Jeremy Corbyn I would also be relentless in campaigning against a Labour Party led by him.

[UndercoverElephant]

Although when I rebelled in parliament I was often voting with Jeremy Corbyn I would also be relentless in campaigning against a Labour Party led by him.

And your campaigning will be about as effective as Tony Blair's.

You have consistently defended the status quo and the Establishment on this board. You are effectively stating that as a turkey, you will relentlessly campaign against Christmas.

This mass movement that has materialised behind Corbyn consists entirely of people who are absolutely sick to death of mainstream politicians like yourself. All you will achieve by attacking him is to re-inforce the factors that are driving people to support him.

[Catweazle]

I wonder how the general public are feeling about Corbyn ? I've been a bit of a Blairite, the "third way" seemed to make sense to me - combining some social responsibility with some capitalist wealth generation.

Now I'm starting to feel a bit different. I'm wondering if the left way might work after all, not in a "GDP" way, but in a way that means less wealth but more fairly distributed. Maybe it would be a better life, even if people couldn't have a bottle of wine with dinner.

Over the years I have been consistently a couple of years ahead of general trends, perhaps I'm more open to change than average. Time will tell.

[UndercoverElephant]

I wonder how the general public are feeling about Corbyn ? I've been a bit of a Blairite, the "third way" seemed to make sense to me - combining some social responsibility with some capitalist wealth generation.

Now I'm starting to feel a bit different. I'm wondering if the left way might work after all, not in a "GDP" way, but in a way that means less wealth but more fairly distributed. Maybe it would be a better life, even if people couldn't have a bottle of wine with dinner.

Over the years I have been consistently a couple of years ahead of general trends, perhaps I'm more open to change than average. Time will tell.

Some parts of the general public are horrified by Corbyn, and will remain horrified. That includes most of the richest 10%, and all regular readers of the Daily Mail and The Telegraph. In other words, the people who voted tory in May, which is about a quarter of the electorate.

How the hell we managed to end up believing that the only way Labour could get elected was to somehow woo enough of that tory-voting quarter of the population to vote for a centrist, Blairite labour party I'm not sure, but even I fell for it.

I am seeing a steady "conversion" process, whereby people in the centre of British politics, including Blairites, are changing their mind about the possibility of Corbyn pulling this off. I honestly believe the right has overplayed its hand. It thought it had won, for all time, a load of political arguments that it actually hasn't won at all. It's just that we'd ended up in a position where nobody was allowed to articulate the other side of the story without being ridiculed. That was Blair's true legacy, and it is being destroyed before our eyes, and Blair knows it, which is why he keeps desperately intervening, even though he's been told - and knows - that those interventions aren't working.

My opinion is that a significant proportion of the public is at least ready to give Corbyn a chance, and it is going to be very interesting to see how the rest of the political/media machine - the tories, the parliamentary labour party, the SNP, the Murdoch press, the Guardian, the BBC - deal with what is in effect a new political reality in the UK.

We are going to find out some of the answers very quickly. Whatever happens, as a long-time spectator of British politics it is going to be absolutely fascinating. And my gut instinct is that he's going to do better than most people are expecting, and that the more successful he is, the harder it is going to be for his opponents to land the killer blow on him. Blair's inteventions are the perfect example. The establishment is going to try very hard to destroy him, but it appears that this actually helps him - it makes him look more appealling because so many people hate the establishment. But if they stop trying to destroy him - if they start taking him seriously instead - then that also helps him.

[johnhemming2]

And your campaigning will be about as effective as Tony Blair's.

I don't expect to persuade you.

[UndercoverElephant]

And your campaigning will be about as effective as Tony Blair's.

I don't expect to persuade you.

You won't persuade anybody else, either. The sort of people who might be open to persuasion by somebody like you will not be attracted to Corbyn in the first place.

[johnhemming2]

In Greece the battle is currently neck and neck between New Democracy and Syriza. You make assumptions about people that are coloured by your own personal view (most people do this).

[emordnilap]

I wonder how the general public are feeling about Corbyn ? I've been a bit of a Blairite, the "third way" seemed to make sense to me - combining some social responsibility with some capitalist wealth generation.

Now I'm starting to feel a bit different. I'm wondering if the left way might work after all, not in a "GDP" way, but in a way that means less wealth but more fairly distributed. Maybe it would be a better life, even if people couldn't have a bottle of wine with dinner.

Over the years I have been consistently a couple of years ahead of general trends, perhaps I'm more open to change than average. Time will tell.

Some parts of the general public are horrified by Corbyn, and will remain horrified. That includes most of the richest 10%, and all regular readers of the Daily Mail and The Telegraph. In other words, the people who voted tory in May, which is about a quarter of the electorate.

How the hell we managed to end up believing that the only way Labour could get elected was to somehow woo enough of that tory-voting quarter of the population to vote for a centrist, Blairite labour party I'm not sure, but even I fell for it.

I am seeing a steady "conversion" process, whereby people in the centre of British politics, including Blairites, are changing their mind about the possibility of Corbyn pulling this off. I honestly believe the right has overplayed its hand. It thought it had won, for all time, a load of political arguments that it actually hasn't won at all. It's just that we'd ended up in a position where nobody was allowed to articulate the other side of the story without being ridiculed. That was Blair's true legacy, and it is being destroyed before our eyes, and Blair knows it, which is why he keeps desperately intervening, even though he's been told - and knows - that those interventions aren't working.

My opinion is that a significant proportion of the public is at least ready to give Corbyn a chance, and it is going to be very interesting to see how the rest of the political/media machine - the tories, the parliamentary labour party, the SNP, the Murdoch press, the Guardian, the BBC - deal with what is in effect a new political reality in the UK.

We are going to find out some of the answers very quickly. Whatever happens, as a long-time spectator of British politics it is going to be absolutely fascinating. And my gut instinct is that he's going to do better than most people are expecting, and that the more successful he is, the harder it is going to be for his opponents to land the killer blow on him. Blair's inteventions are the perfect example. The establishment is going to try very hard to destroy him, but it appears that this actually helps him - it makes him look more appealling because so many people hate the establishment. But if they stop trying to destroy him - if they start taking him seriously instead - then that also helps him.

Interesting post, apart from calling Blair centrist (implying that Brown was too, which is definitely not true). Corbyn is (or at least will be) centrist. He won't have much choice. At least it'll be better than the current set-up, though not by half enough.

[Little John]

Agreed E.

Though, I do think the old left/right political dichotomy is breaking down. Or, at least, it certainly is inside my head. On the one hand, in terms of that basic left right dichotomy, I am much further to the left than Corbyn. On the other hand, on specific issues, such as migration policy, I am a world apart from him. Then again, his mistrust of European institutions chimes with mine. Though, again, I am now much further down that road than he appears to be.

Frankly, I was hoping for a general move to the left in this country with Corbyn being merely the opening standard bearer of that move. In the meantime, a slow and steady appreciation of what is actually coming down the pipe vis a vis climate change, peak resources and the mass movement of starving billions would lead to a new real-political landscape whereby it would be generally far more left-leaning, but with that considerably tempered by national policies that would ensure this country did not go under during the storm to come.

It seems, though, that events are taking over. The crisis is now speeding up at a rate that mainstream politics is seriously lagging behind. Something has to give. Something will break. My guess is, unless they face up to reality, it will be the left. And then God knows what we will get.

[emordnilap]

I do think the old left/right political dichotomy is breaking down.

I hope so. Life is far more diverse than that. There is currently no authority that speaks for and can sympathise with the masses. A benign dictator that is answerable to the democratic will and needs of the electorate. A tall order, which will be ridiculed by the usual suspects - you know who they are! - using their tired stereotypes and clichés.

[biffvernon]

It's good to see that Jeremy Corbyn is already having a significant and beneficial impact on UK foreign policy.

David Cameron has indicated he will abandon plans to extend military airstrikes against Islamic State (Isis) targets from Iraq to Syria if Jeremy Corbyn is elected leader of the Labour party.

In a sign of how the leftwinger could have an impact on Britain’s foreign policy, even as opposition leader, the prime minister said that he would only hold a parliamentary vote on the strikes if there is “genuine consensus”.

Speaking in Madrid, the prime minister said: “I would only proceed going further on this issue if there is genuine consensus in the United Kingdom about it before going back to parliament.” The frontrunner for the Labour leadership is opposed to the current airstrikes against Isis targets in Iraq and to extending them to Syria.

Corbyn also suggested in the last Labour leadership hustings, broadcast on Sky News on Thursday evening, that he could not currently envisage the circumstances in which he would agree to deploy British forces.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... orbyn-wins

[kenneal - lagger]

Shows how bonkers many people's stance on the refugee crisis is, doesn't it! Those advocating letting migrants in, they are not refugees once they leave Turkey, are also saying that we should do something about the war in Syria. Corbyn, who Biff and many of his ilk support, is now saying that we shouldn't bomb ISIS so that is going to make the migrant situation worse as most of them are fleeing ISIS and the fighting that it is causing and the bombing is designed to reduce

If we allow ISIS to win there will be a vast number of non Sunnis fleeing the new caliphate together with a large number of Sunnis who are not as religious as the Caliph would like. We would then have the problem of the Caliphate invading Europe, through Turkey, and causing vast numbers of new refugees.

My support for Corbyn is rapidly disappearing.

[johnhemming2]

The refugees I dealt with today had family members killed by Assad's forces.