General Election June 8

[Little John]

And what will that oath of allegiance be worth in a world where the DUP can dictate Northern Irish policy by proxy from the UK Parliament while Sinn Fein do nothing but sit on their hands because they made an oath not to be a part of that proxy themselves?

[johnhemming2]

Ask them.

[Lord Beria3]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... ndid-news/

As Ambrose writes in the Torygraph, this is a golden opportunity to reshape Brexit in a softer form.

I really hope Parliament pushes through this option.

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... ndid-news/

As Ambrose writes in the Torygraph, this is a golden opportunity to reshape Brexit in a softer form.

I really hope Parliament pushes through this option.

You are assuming that this Parliament is capable of pushing through anything at all. With every passing hour, this looks ever more doubtful.

[Potemkin Villager]

This DUP-Tory deal cannot work. The logic doesn't work.

It is totally naaf.

There is no way to logically reconcile these things. The tories cannot guarantee the DUP no hard border in Ireland at the same time as keeping open the option of no Brexit deal. They can have one or the other, but not both.

This whole situation is surreal. It doesn't make any sense. It looks like the entire tory party is in denial about the above, because "there isn't any appetite for another election." Of course there isn't any appetite. But not having an appetite does not allow you to defy logic.

Please somebody tell me I am not going mad.

No you are not. Might I suggest you try reading some Flan O'Brien for light relief?

I did not realise how this thread was beginning to overheat again as I did a Corbyn and spent most of today on my allotment which I can highly recommend to help get your head together at this turbulent time.

The border question in Ireland has a long history and once more raises its problematic head. I can vividly remember when it was a dangerous miltarised contiguous check point charlie and kill zone that I had to regularly cross on my everyday business. I think I can safely say that nobody on this side of the Irish Sea wants to see the return of a "hard" land border between NI and ROI.

However the "logic" of Britex demands a hard border between the UK and the EC. If there is no hard border between NI and ROI then logically there has to be on between NI and the "mainland" which of course is illogical as long as NI is part of the UK and Britexs with GB.

Agreed UE, it is a totally FUBAR.

[UndercoverElephant]

And so it starts.

DUP say they 'will support the Tories for as long as Corbyn leads Labour'. Implying that if Corbyn, who once talked to the IRA, was replaced by a different Labour leader, they wouldn't necessarily continue to support the tories. Not only does this confirm that a tory government propped up by the DUP cannot be impartial in NI, it is also poisoning mainland UK politics with the legacy of "The Troubles". They are dragging *us* back in to their historic feud.

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-12/dup- ... ds-labour/

[Little John]

Jesus f***ing wept

[Potemkin Villager]

She will be out by Friday.

Actually, to be pedantic, imho it is the tories who are dragging
the Irish question into their feud.

[kenneal - lagger]

She's now posted this:

Not sure about the technical details re Assembly, but remember people saying (I think between Art50 and June that there was a big hiccup there. PS here it is, from Frances Viner:

This is where social media is so handy.
'MAY is lying, the DUP cannot legally support her until they sit in Stormont, as until then they are MLA controllers (MP's in Westminster) in name only. They risk losing their seats in just a few weeks time.
There is a serious question at the moment, are the DUP MLA's allowed to Vote in Westminster as the Result of the Good Friday Agreement?
I say this as the Northern Ireland Assembly collapsed earlier this year, Forcing an election in March. The deadline for the formation at Stormont was missed.
Which would force another election, however Theresa May called a general election, which serves the same purpose.
The DUP, Sinn Fein etc, must agree to resume at Stormont by the 29th June otherwise it must have another election there, or total control is passed to the Mainland.
So for the moment the MLA's are in name only, the DUP do not have a right to Vote in Westminster unless they take up their role in Stormont, however given that Arlene Foster (head of the DUP) still refuses to step down over her bodging the green fuels subsidy (Will cost N.I over £400 Million), the new Assembly is unlikely to happen.
The DUP are acting like they are MP's prior to the Good Friday Agreement, it just does not work like that now, you either take office or lose your seat.
So MAY is lying, the DUP cannot legally support her until they sit in Stormont, as until then they are MLA controllers (MP's in Westminster) in name only. They risk losing their seats in just a few weeks time.
One is tied in with the other.
SHARE SHARE SHARE SHARE SHARE SHARE.'
Like
· Reply · 7 mins

That article is a load of bo****ks. The DUP MPs are completely different to the MLAs. They have been voted in as MPs completely independent of the Local Assembly. It's the same in Scotland and Wales; MPs are a different entity to MLAs and MSPs.

[adam2]

She will be out by Friday.

Actually, to be pedantic, imho it is the tories who are dragging
the Irish question into their feud.

I doubt that it will be that quickly, but we shall see.

[kenneal - lagger]

With all this chaos after a "first past the post" election and the worries about a minority party having too much power is anyone still asking for proportion representation as a voting system? Just look at the power that resides with minor religious parties and the danger that causes in Israel.

PR would guarantee this type of impasse at every election.

[Little John]

With all this chaos after a "first past the post" election and the worries about a minority party having too much power is anyone still asking for proportion representation as a voting system? Just look at the power that resides with minor religious parties and the danger that causes in Israel.

PR would guarantee this type of impasse at every election.

Not necessarily true. In a fully fledged, fully functioning and mature PR system, there would be many more parties operating that better reflected the micro-cultural/political differences across the country instead of what we have. Which is two monolithic coalitions of interests. Interest that are sometime convergent, but sometimes divergent - both in terms of the beliefs of the MPs themselves and also in terms of the beliefs of the voters who feel compelled to vote for them simply because they represent merely the nearest approximation to their own interests.

In a PR system, such an impasse would arguably be less likely to occur because those coalitions would occur only following an election result.

[UndercoverElephant]

She's now posted this:

Not sure about the technical details re Assembly, but remember people saying (I think between Art50 and June that there was a big hiccup there. PS here it is, from Frances Viner:

This is where social media is so handy.
'MAY is lying, the DUP cannot legally support her until they sit in Stormont, as until then they are MLA controllers (MP's in Westminster) in name only. They risk losing their seats in just a few weeks time.
There is a serious question at the moment, are the DUP MLA's allowed to Vote in Westminster as the Result of the Good Friday Agreement?
I say this as the Northern Ireland Assembly collapsed earlier this year, Forcing an election in March. The deadline for the formation at Stormont was missed.
Which would force another election, however Theresa May called a general election, which serves the same purpose.
The DUP, Sinn Fein etc, must agree to resume at Stormont by the 29th June otherwise it must have another election there, or total control is passed to the Mainland.
So for the moment the MLA's are in name only, the DUP do not have a right to Vote in Westminster unless they take up their role in Stormont, however given that Arlene Foster (head of the DUP) still refuses to step down over her bodging the green fuels subsidy (Will cost N.I over £400 Million), the new Assembly is unlikely to happen.
The DUP are acting like they are MP's prior to the Good Friday Agreement, it just does not work like that now, you either take office or lose your seat.
So MAY is lying, the DUP cannot legally support her until they sit in Stormont, as until then they are MLA controllers (MP's in Westminster) in name only. They risk losing their seats in just a few weeks time.
One is tied in with the other.
SHARE SHARE SHARE SHARE SHARE SHARE.'
Like
· Reply · 7 mins

That article is a load of bo****ks. The DUP MPs are completely different to the MLAs. They have been voted in as MPs completely independent of the Local Assembly. It's the same in Scotland and Wales; MPs are a different entity to MLAs and MSPs.

It is not an article - just something somebody posted on facebook. I was a little skeptical myself.

[UndercoverElephant]

With all this chaos after a "first past the post" election and the worries about a minority party having too much power is anyone still asking for proportion representation as a voting system?

Yep. The chaos is being caused by the fact that no other British party wants to go into government with the tories, because everybody who isn't a tory despises the tories far more than any other party.

PR would guarantee this type of impasse at every election.

I don't agree. PR would lock the tories out of power until such time as they showed they could govern in the interests of the many rather than the few. A coalition of progressive parties would do just fine.

[Little John]

I suspected this would happen as soon as I heard about the Tories shacking up with the DUP. Sinn Fein have effectively been forced in this.

Sinn Fein 'flying MPs to London for Westminster induction amid fears they will topple May'

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/816361 ... estminster