General Election Dec 2019 thread

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 09 Dec 2019, 17:51

Its possible.

What happens if there is no majority for deal or 2nd referendum.

We could be stuck in the EU forever. Unless Macron vetoes any further extensions.

What fun!

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 09 Dec 2019, 18:56

God help us all then. We'll end up like Israel with a bunch of nutters controlling what goes on in government and the country without a government for months as small parties wring what they can out of major parties. The DUP deal will look upfront and normal.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Dec 2019, 19:11

I don't believe the deadlock will continue indefinitely. Three things will break it: brexit actually happening, brexit conclusively not happening, and Corbyn retiring and being replaced by Kier Starmer. Personally I think all three will lead to a Labour government. The tories can't go on governing forever.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Dec 2019, 19:36

Westminster Voting Intention: CON: 43% (+1) LAB: 36% (=) LDM: 12% (+1) BXP: 3% (-1) GRN: 2% (=) Via @SavantaComRes, 6-8 Dec. Changes w/ 2-5 Dec.

Almost exactly the same as the other one.

Post by **clv101** » 09 Dec 2019, 20:29

UndercoverElephant wrote: The tories can't go on governing forever.

Indeed, I expect Johnson's calamity government to come to a sticky end before the five year term, before we have a comprehensive trade deal with either US or EU, and a resurgent Labour under new leadership to win a decent majority.

The next few years are looking like more of the same unfortunately though.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Dec 2019, 20:36

clv101 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote: The tories can't go on governing forever.
Indeed, I expect Johnson's calamity government to come to a sticky end before the five year term, before we have a comprehensive trade deal with either US or EU, and a resurgent Labour under new leadership to win a decent majority.

The next few years are looking like more of the same unfortunately though.

Labour's problems are not the result of Corbyn per se. They are the result of Corbyn capitulating to the Blairites in his party and allowing Labour to become a Remain party. This has then allowed the bullshit smears that, hitherto, did not stick, to begin to do so as a consequence of the working class having been betrayed.

Post by **clv101** » 09 Dec 2019, 20:47

The remain/leave dynamic is going to rapidly fall away once we're in the transition period. The arguments over the nature of future trade deals are likely to be far more nuanced.

I do wonder whether Farage's new Reform Party will be able to capitalise on the general malaise.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Dec 2019, 21:01

clv101 wrote:The remain/leave dynamic is going to rapidly fall away once we're in the transition period. The arguments over the nature of future trade deals are likely to be far more nuanced.

I do wonder whether Farage's new Reform Party will be able to capitalise on the general malaise.

You clearly have no real idea of what is happening. This is not about "Leave" or "Remain". They are merely proxies for the divide between a globalist oriented bourgeoisie and a nation state oriented proletariat.

That is not going away either here or elsewhere.

Post by **clv101** » 09 Dec 2019, 21:12

Little John wrote:
clv101 wrote:The remain/leave dynamic is going to rapidly fall away once we're in the transition period. The arguments over the nature of future trade deals are likely to be far more nuanced.

I do wonder whether Farage's new Reform Party will be able to capitalise on the general malaise.
You clearly have no real idea of what is happening. This is not about "Leave" or "Remain". They are merely proxies for the divide between a globalist oriented bourgeoisie and a nation state oriented proletariat.

That is not going away either here or elsewhere.

I totally agree, you brought up Labour being a remain party, my point is that it's not about leave or remain anymore - it's about the nature of the trade agreements - which is, as you say, globalist Vs the nation state. We agree.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 09 Dec 2019, 21:27

Little John wrote: They are the result of Corbyn capitulating to the Blairites in his party and allowing Labour to become a Remain party. This has then allowed the bullshit smears that, hitherto, did not stick, to begin to do so as a consequence of the working class having been betrayed.

Corbyn didn't "capitulate". The Labour Party has an internal democratic process for making strategic policy decisions, and Corbyn merely abided by that process. The Labour Party made that decision.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Dec 2019, 22:53

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Little John wrote: They are the result of Corbyn capitulating to the Blairites in his party and allowing Labour to become a Remain party. This has then allowed the bullshit smears that, hitherto, did not stick, to begin to do so as a consequence of the working class having been betrayed.
Corbyn didn't "capitulate". The Labour Party has an internal democratic process for making strategic policy decisions, and Corbyn merely abided by that process. The Labour Party made that decision.

Because the Labour party is a Blairite, neo-liberal, globalist, capitalist party just like the Democrat Party in the USA. All of which means Corbyn is someone who talks at least some of the talk but who does precisely none of the walk when push comes to shove which makes him, at best, a distraction and, at worst, a false God.

Labour are "controlled opposition". They are worse than useless in terms of the change that is required.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 10 Dec 2019, 07:18

Little John wrote:Because the Labour party is a Blairite, neo-liberal, globalist, capitalist party just like the Democrat Party in the USA.

This post is as detached from reality as Beria's posts claiming Corbyn is anti-semitic.

The Labour Party is controlled by by momentum, and it is the exact opposite of a "Blairite, neo-liberal, globalist, capitalist party just like the Democrat Party in the USA."

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 10 Dec 2019, 08:23

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Little John wrote:Because the Labour party is a Blairite, neo-liberal, globalist, capitalist party just like the Democrat Party in the USA.
This post is as detached from reality as Beria's posts claiming Corbyn is anti-semitic.

The Labour Party is controlled by by momentum, and it is the exact opposite of a "Blairite, neo-liberal, globalist, capitalist party just like the Democrat Party in the USA."

Momentum are beurgoise, middle class, identity politics driven Blairites in disguise. The disguise being so effective even the ideologically obsessed dumb fucks in Momentum don't know it is a disguise. Sounds to me, that's probably not too far off an adequate description of you.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 10 Dec 2019, 09:07

Little John wrote:Momentum are beurgoise, middle class, identity politics driven Blairites in disguise.

If you genuinely believe that then you have, I am afraid, totally lost the plot. Identity politics? Yes, there's plenty of that. Blairites? No they f***ing well aren't. They are the reason the Blairites have been hounded out of the party.
This is so damned obvious that I am struggling to believe that somebody as politically informed as you are could possibly fail to understand it. The whole point in momentum was to wrest control of the party from the Blairites and turn Labour from a centrist part into a socialist party, and that is exactly what they've done.

The disguise being so effective even the ideologically obsessed dumb fucks in Momentum don't know it is a disguise. Sounds to me, that's probably not too far off an adequate description of you.

Disguise. Yeah, a manifesto promising to renationalise the railways and utilities, implement a 4-day week and roll out free broadband to every house in the country...that's "Blairism in disguise".

You're bonkers, Steve. This election has driven you mad.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 10 Dec 2019, 09:32

Renationalisation of the Railways, in particular, is illegal under EU law. As I said, ideologically possessed morons.