General Election June 8

[Lord Beria3]

First and only live election debate I watched... overall May did better then Corbyn.

For me Corbyn failed to reassure Tory leaning voters that he is ready to be trusted on the economy, security and immigration.

Middle England will (probably) stick with the Tories on 8 June.

[UndercoverElephant]

I want to see a leader who defends Britain's national interests and not suck up to our internal and foreign enemies.

I don't think Corbyn does that. I don't actually think the IRA ever was "our" enemy. They were the enemy of a British state whose position was unacceptable. In other words, the IRA had a genuine grievance. The problem wasn't them, it was Thatcher, and Thatcher wasn't "us". Certainly wasn't "me", anyway.

If people like you had been running the show, there would still be IRA bombs going off in London. How is that "defending Britain's national interests"?

[clv101]

Surely you are a bit concerned that if Argentina invaded the Falklands islands, Corbyn would almost certainly not fight to defend them?

If you actually believe that then you have a very poor understanding of politics.

[clv101]

Defending the national interest is considered by most Tories and patriotic Labour/UKIP voters who derive from the working classes, as pretty important... it's not a "nice to have" but a pre-requisite to voting for a prime minister.

But don't you see that 'defending the national interest' is all about health, education, police etc... All that flag-waving, national bollocks is just that. North Korea (could also add USA), pretty big on 'defending national interest', IS NOT a model to adopt.

[UndercoverElephant]

Theresa May was warned by her own most senior spin doctors not to call this election. They both walked out immediately after she ignored their advice. I was on holiday when this happened, and was not following it at the time, but it makes very interesting reading in hindsight. Reveals quite a bit about Theresa May's judgement.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/d ... s-10268666

Downing Street in chaos as Theresa May's top spin doctors walk out before the election

More senior staffers decide they don't want to work with the Prime Minister

Having lost her two top spinners, she then went ahead and launched a campaign based around herself, with "Theresa May's Team" on the posters instead of "Conservatives". This has now been rebranded as "Conservatives".

[vtsnowedin]

I want to see a leader who defends Britain's national interests and not suck up to our internal and foreign enemies.

I don't think Corbyn does that. I don't actually think the IRA ever was "our" enemy. They were the enemy of a British state whose position was unacceptable. In other words, the IRA had a genuine grievance. The problem wasn't them, it was Thatcher, and Thatcher wasn't "us". Certainly wasn't "me", anyway.

If people like you had been running the show, there would still be IRA bombs going off in London. How is that "defending Britain's national interests"?

I realize that I'm sticking my nose into an extended families business, but how were the IRA "not our enemy" when they were blowing up innocent civilians?
And just what was so "unacceptable" about the UK's position?
It has been years, even decades so forgive me if I have forgotten the details.

[UndercoverElephant]

I want to see a leader who defends Britain's national interests and not suck up to our internal and foreign enemies.

I don't think Corbyn does that. I don't actually think the IRA ever was "our" enemy. They were the enemy of a British state whose position was unacceptable. In other words, the IRA had a genuine grievance. The problem wasn't them, it was Thatcher, and Thatcher wasn't "us". Certainly wasn't "me", anyway.

If people like you had been running the show, there would still be IRA bombs going off in London. How is that "defending Britain's national interests"?

I realize that I'm sticking my nose into an extended families business, but how were the IRA "not our enemy" when they were blowing up innocent civilians?

You need to understand the history, which would take me at least 2000 words to explain satisfactorily in the context of this discussion. In four words: they had a case.

And just what was so "unacceptable" about the UK's position?

It did not acknowledge history.

Do some googling. Start with "Oliver Cromwell and Ireland" and "The Potato Famine".

It has been years, even decades so forgive me if I have forgotten the details.

I strongly suspect you never knew the details in the first place.

[vtsnowedin]

I don't think Corbyn does that. I don't actually think the IRA ever was "our" enemy. They were the enemy of a British state whose position was unacceptable. In other words, the IRA had a genuine grievance. The problem wasn't them, it was Thatcher, and Thatcher wasn't "us". Certainly wasn't "me", anyway.

If people like you had been running the show, there would still be IRA bombs going off in London. How is that "defending Britain's national interests"?

I realize that I'm sticking my nose into an extended families business, but how were the IRA "not our enemy" when they were blowing up innocent civilians?

You need to understand the history, which would take me at least 2000 words to explain satisfactorily in the context of this discussion. In four words: they had a case.

And just what was so "unacceptable" about the UK's position?

It did not acknowledge history.

Do some googling. Start with "Oliver Cromwell and Ireland" and "The Potato Famine".

It has been years, even decades so forgive me if I have forgotten the details.

I strongly suspect you never knew the details in the first place.

All points taken, if not well taken at least to be given full consideration when time permits.

[fuzzy]

http://www.historytoday.com/tom-reilly/ ... h-question

food for thought. I am not disputing that 'English' [ie Norman descended] landlords were total rsholes in Eire - as they were in Scotland and England.

[Lord Beria3]

Regarding the IRA or indeed any other armed group, if they are deliberately targeting and trying to kill British policemen, solders and civilians, then that group is an internal enemy.

Returning to the Labour party, it looks like Corbyn's enemies are already starting to prepare the way for a third leadership election.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/ju ... -governing

"He told The New Statesman: "There is no honest measure of success and failure other than success equals Labour gains, Tory losses and at least a tight finish with possibility of a minority government. Failure equals Labour losses, Tory gains and an increased Tory majority."

Neil Kinnock is the grand statesman of the Labour PLP and probably speaks for many MP's. Lets not forget it was Kinnock that was the most passionate and articulate of those who successfully led the mass no confidence motion against Corbyn after the Brexit referendum.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/ju ... servatives

Corbyn allies say that he will remain leader, certainly if he exceeds Ed Miliband’s 2015 vote share (30.4 per cent). But Umunna warns: “What I have no time for is any debate about degrees of failure and what degree of failure is worst or best for the Labour Party. I’m in the Dave Prentis [Unison general secretary] camp on these things, which is: the only thing we should be seeking is government. What that means for me is that the test in this election for the Labour Party is getting more seats than the Conservative Party. It’s not getting more seats than we got in 1983 or 1931: it’s getting more seats than the Conservatives now.

Chuka Umunna, along with Cooper, is considered likely to challenge Corbyn for the leadership. What he is saying is therefore significant.

[Lord Beria3]

http://www.scoopnest.com/user/BBCNewsni ... 2541474816

Is history repeating itself? Watching the clip of the then Labour leader Neil Kinnock talking about how the polls were narrowing with a week to go before the election.

Maggie Thatcher went on to win a 102 seat majority in the 1987 election.

[fuzzy]

Neil 'windbag' Kinnock is one of 3 family members sucking on the gov teat. His wife has earned a kings ransom as an MEP. IMO, he has the integrity of a tory politician.

[UndercoverElephant]

Regarding the IRA or indeed any other armed group, if they are deliberately targeting and trying to kill British policemen, solders and civilians, then that group is an internal enemy.

Does that mean you should engage them in military struggle and refuse to talk to them?

Far too many people oversimplify the Irish conflict. The IRA was not ISIS.

[UndercoverElephant]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/ju ... servatives

Corbyn allies say that he will remain leader, certainly if he exceeds Ed Miliband’s 2015 vote share (30.4 per cent). But Umunna warns: “What I have no time for is any debate about degrees of failure and what degree of failure is worst or best for the Labour Party. I’m in the Dave Prentis [Unison general secretary] camp on these things, which is: the only thing we should be seeking is government. What that means for me is that the test in this election for the Labour Party is getting more seats than the Conservative Party. It’s not getting more seats than we got in 1983 or 1931: it’s getting more seats than the Conservatives now.

Chuka Umunna, along with Cooper, is considered likely to challenge Corbyn for the leadership. What he is saying is therefore significant.

It is absurd to expect Labour to get more seats than the Tories given the position of the SNP.

And if there is a Blairite challenge to Corbyn, the challenge will fail. Their only options are to remain in a Corbyn-led Labour Party, or split and create a new party.

[UndercoverElephant]

Is history repeating itself?

No. This election is nothing like that one.