Sunak announces new legislation to make cross-channel migration illegal

[Vortex2]

Anglo Saxon. Why not stop at the Roman British, or the celts, the beaker people or even the neolithics? Maybe we reject the vikings and the Normans and the Jews and the Scots and the multiple royal houses we have imported, Not to mention the refugees from the Russian pogroms or the two world wars. There is no genetic test that says who is Anglo Saxon and there is no one in this country who does not have immigrant blood in them. We are all 100% immigrants , genetically speaking.

Perfectly correct .. but we fought many of those earlier new arrivals, and permitted compatible incomers.

Many of the recent newcomers won't add to our society, which has evolved over centuries .. they will ruin it.

[kenneal - lagger]

There is also the fact that when most of those other migrants arrived there was plenty of uninhabited land and land with no ownership for those people to take over. Now we have lost pretty much any wild land in the country, most land is human created, and we import 50% of the food that we eat at a time when climate change will reduce global food production making it very difficult to feed the numbers that we already have.

In less than 30 years world population will start to reduce so if a growing population is required to ensure economic growth and stability we will be robbing the countries from whence these migrants come. If young people are needed to look after our old people we will robbing the population donor countries of the people that they need to look after their old people. All the arguments of those who support unlimited immigration are basically selfish and colonial attitudes, the very attitudes which they seek to brand those against mass migration with.

The only way that we will stop this migration is to share our wealth with poorer countries but it will have to be in a way which will not go straight into the pockets of the corrupt, thieving so and sos who are running those countries into the ground at the moment. I know that this is a difficult thing to do but it is something that must be done to stop this migration. The alternative will be to protect our borders by gunfire at some time in the future.

[kenneal - lagger]

...............
Of course I'm a huge fan of Caroline Lucas .................

I often ask the local Green Party members how they reconcile all the additional infrastructure building to house, transport and employ all the immigrants with their climate change aspirations and I get called a racist in reply. I have never once had a satisfactory answer.

I am often asked why I am not a member or supporter of the Green Party and I give the above as my reason. Until the Green Party has a coherent policy on immigration they cannot be considered to be a legitimate election choice in my opinion. It's about time the Green Party grew up and joined the difficult world of adults.

[mr brightside]

Much too little much too late. This will be a nice upturn in business for the criminals and forgers who make a living out of legitimising illegals, it won't be long before it gets really hard to get rid of anyone. They should have stopped them coming in in the first instance, it's like a possession is nine tenths of the law situation.

We can't get rid of large number of people who are already here and should not have been allowed to stay -- or have "disappeared" into an entirely black market existence. But it looks to me like a combination of today's high court ruling and new legislation next year means that the situation is going to change significantly going forwards. Sunak has staked his credibility on it. Clearly it isn't about ecological sustainability (which it ought to be). It's about the financial burden, which almost everybody can now see is also unsustainable. Everybody apart from Caroline Lucas, of course.

Yes, in light of the very recent ruling which i only heard about last night, it ought to be easier.

I'm not going to underestimate the resourcefulness of criminals, though. It remains to be seen how many they will actually be able to deport in practice, and how many bent legal teams start launching bids to scuttle the ship; which is, of course, to their significant financial gain.

[UndercoverElephant]

If the legislation is clear enough then the legal teams will fail. Parliament makes the laws in this country, and the judiciary interpret them. The whole (stated) point of the new legislation is to ensure that there is no room for misinterpretation.

[Potemkin Villager]

The whole (stated) point of the new legislation is to ensure that there is no room for misinterpretation.

Fascinating to see how that pans out.

[Catweazle]

The best way to stop the boats is to tow them back to France, where 40 people will make their way back to the camp and spread the word, whilst looking for the people who took their money. Pretty soon the traffickers will be afraid to show their faces there and people will start making their way back home to the families that sponsored the trip in the hope of a regular income posted from blighty.

[kenneal - lagger]

The best way to stop the boats is to tow them back to France, where 40 people will make their way back to the camp and spread the word, whilst looking for the people who took their money. Pretty soon the traffickers will be afraid to show their faces there and people will start making their way back home to the families that sponsored the trip in the hope of a regular income posted from blighty.

While I agree with you on this, I'm not sure that it can legally be done.

[UndercoverElephant]

I seem to remember there was a council of a suburb in California that went bust as 98% of the population were illegal immigrants who did not want to pay taxes for some reason or other.

It doesn't look good for the UK. I didn't have the money to buy a place in the South West or Wales so I decided to leave and give myself another 30 years of relative peace. A total loss of control of borders and mass immigration would be the most serious issue if it were not for the resource and energy shortages and all the other precursors of collapse. I often wonder how Australia will cope and what will be done with literally millions of people arriving on overcrowded ships and planes when the collapse really starts.

Plane traffic is relatively easy to stop, I think. But we have plenty of historical precedents of stateless people ending up on overcrowded ships with nowhere to go. Just not on the scale it is likely to be coming. I don't know what is going to happen, but the problem for any state thinking of taking them is that that too will set a precedent. My best guess is what we'll actually end up with is enormous refugee camps that become de-facto death camps when it is no longer possible to keep people alive, and there's nowhere left to send them. Belsen without the fascism.

[clv101]

Folk interested in the coming mass human migration might like to read Gaia Vince's new book Nomad Century. Expect most here will disagree with much of what she says and it's totally *not* politically possible these days. But she does makes some interesting points along the lines of migration being our species' (through all time) number one, most effective adaptation strategy. Abandoning migration in the face of climate change will make the problem worse, not better.

[UndercoverElephant]

Folk interested in the coming mass human migration might like to read Gaia Vince's new book Nomad Century. Expect most here will disagree with much of what she says and it's totally *not* politically possible these days. But she does makes some interesting points along the lines of migration being our species' (through all time) number one, most effective adaptation strategy.

But surely migration as an adaptation strategy only keeps working during an age of net global abundance. I disagree that migration has been our number one adaptation strategy, though it has obviously been a key part of our history. But even if we accept that has been true up until now, it does not follow that it will continue to work in an age of net global scarcity. Migration only works as an adaptation strategy if there is somewhere to migrate to (somewhere with an abundance of resources with respect to population, or access to them).

EDIT: also, politics matters. If is it totally not politically possible, then unless the politics is going to shift, it is a fantasy. The crucial question is how politics could actually change as public awareness of the situation increases. And in this case, it is only going to get even more impossible.

Abandoning migration in the face of climate change will make the problem worse, not better.

Which problem will it make worse?

[kenneal - lagger]

Migration as a strategy, as said above, is fine when you have somewhere relatively unpopulated to move to or where you transfer diseases which decimate the indigenous population. It was fine when the world population was a billion or two but it hasn't been that for more than a century and there haven't been any major migrations since then either. One of the only relatively large migrations recently has been the Jewish migration into Palestine and that hasn't gone at all well, especially for the Palestinians who have been marginalised in their own lands.

I see future migrations being along the same lines as the Jewish migration and the result being the same for the indigenous populations, unless the indigenous people fight back. There simply won't be the space nor the spare food supply in the future to accommodate mass migrations.

There are many strategies which could be adopted to help people stay where they are including permaculture and its management of any water supply available. There are also many different house design strategies which could make life better in hotter climes which have been used for centuries such as courtyard houses with cellar rooms using the ground as a source of cool air and wind catchers to distribute cooler air. There will be p;places where the temperatures become intolerable and we will just have to see what happens there.

[UndercoverElephant]

Migration as a strategy, as said above, is fine when you have somewhere relatively unpopulated to move to or where you transfer diseases which decimate the indigenous population. It was fine when the world population was a billion or two but it hasn't been that for more than a century and there haven't been any major migrations since then either. One of the only relatively large migrations recently has been the Jewish migration into Palestine and that hasn't gone at all well, especially for the Palestinians who have been marginalised in their own lands.

I think the aftermath of WW2 was the last example of a major migration, but that happened at a time when the global population, especially of fighting-age males, had just taken a major hit. That is exactly why the UK opened up its borders to what was left of the empire.

There are many strategies which could be adopted to help people stay where they are including permaculture and its management of any water supply available.

Not going to work for Bangladesh.

There will be places where the temperatures become intolerable and we will just have to see what happens there.

You are talking about most of the tropics here.

[clv101]

If I'm remembering right, her ideas included new, planned megacities in what are now sparsely populated high latitudes. A project for the 2nd half of the century providing labour to exploit newly unlocked resources and redress the economically challenging demographics in many northern countries.

It read as a technical solution, pretty much ignoring politics and cultural issues. An optimisation problem of solving for 8bn+ people on a 3°C warmer world.

[BritDownUnder]

There might be scope to migrate to parts of the Canadian Arctic (one would have to presume the Russians are not going to open their part of the Arctic), Greenland and Antarctica and high parts of Iceland (avoiding erupting volcanoes perhaps).

I think the UK should seriously consider resettling some of the more dangerous 'asylum seekers' in Antarctica in the next few years, or some offshore islands like South Sandwich Islands or South Georgia.