Conservative party/opposition watch

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Telegraph turns against Sunak:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/0 ... -election/
Anyone who has ridden the rapids of misfortune will attest that loyalty is a marvellous quality in a friend but, as Mark Twain observed, “loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul”. Nor rescued a political party from extinction, we might add.
Despite yesterday’s poll, which put the Conservatives on a parlous 19 per cent and Reform on a fast-closing 15, despite a death-rattle net approval rating of minus 48 (lower than Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn when they resigned), Rishi Sunak survives as Prime Minister. That is largely due to the misplaced loyalty of his colleagues, but also because, as one Tory MP said, the idea of a leadership challenge at this stage is “utterly bonkers”.
It really isn’t, you know. What is bonkers, truly, madly deeply delusional, in fact, is sticking with a course so calamitous, so certain to end in ruin, that it could spell the demise of a political party which celebrates its 190th birthday this year. I am not exaggerating. Cabinet ministers with majorities of 18,000-plus are facing their own Portillo Moment (a metaphor coined after the 1997 general election humiliation of then Cabinet star Michael Portillo.)
Of the 348 current Tory MPs, how many do you reckon will be left standing after the Autumn Annihilation? Present polling suggests the losses of the Charge of the Light Brigade – 113 killed, 134 wounded – were a mere scratch compared to what lies in wait electorally for the Conservative parliamentary party.
So, what?, I hear you cry. It’s no more than the b------s deserve. Spitting in the face of their base with 745,000 legal net migration in a single year, outbidding normal families for scarce rental properties to get thousands of asylum seekers out of hotels (and hide them away) so Rishi can claim to have kept his “promise” before the general election. And they seriously think people who voted Tory in 2019 – clue: immigration is our Number 1 concern – are going to make that mistake again?
Normally, I would agree. The sense of betrayal runs very deep, the desire to teach the Tories a lesson they won’t forget is almost overwhelming. A bunch of Lib Dem cuckoos has taken over the nest built from our votes, our efforts. How dare they, those simpering Alicias and Carolines with their “Let them buy heat pumps!” condescension and ridiculous pronouns. So, you may not like it when I say that acting quickly now to install a true Conservative as leader of the Conservatives is well worth the gamble, but please hear me out.
Do we really want 10 years of Labour supercharging Woke in our institutions, brainwashing schoolchildren to despise their country and feel guilty about its remarkable history, abolishing patriotic feeling (Bye bye Rule Britannia at the Proms, so long Union Jack!), banning parents from talking their own children out of mutilating their young bodies, giving comfort to Islamists and far Leftists who wish to destroy our way of life, repatriating Shamima Begum (Sham’s human rights being more important than ours, of course), pursuing a “safe routes”, all-barbarians-welcome immigration policy, expanding the WFH quango class and suffocating the spirit of free enterprise. Purse-lipped cultural revolutionaries making that British pastime “having a laugh” illegal (just you wait). To cap it all, legislating away free speech to the point where even discussing any of the above is a hate crime.
Make no mistake, that is the very real danger if we, as many of the right-minded among us intend to do, either vote Reform UK or refuse to vote at all. Unfairly, Reform will end up with no seats and the Tories could hold so few that it will be the work of more than one term to get back into government. The Conservative Party may deserve that decade in the wilderness, but what about Britain? I am scared, quite frankly, hugely apprehensive. Afraid that our beloved country will be irretrievably lost under a moronocracy led by clod-hopping class warriors like Angela “Tory scum” Rayner.
A courageous new conservative Conservative leader – a Kemi, Suella, Priti, Robert – committed to leaving the European Convention on Human Rights and taking back immediate control of our borders, who is elected straight after the certain bloodbath of the 2 May local elections, could do much to mitigate that awful fate, I think.
There is a precedent. In May 2019, Theresa May’s government suffered the worst Tory local election performance in 24 years (Sunak is about to seize that grim title). The Conservatives lost over 1,300 seats. Three weeks later, Mrs May announced her resignation. Boris Johnson became party leader on 23 July. Five months later, the new prime minister won an 80-seat majority with 43.6 per cent of the popular vote.
I am not suggesting a victory of that miraculous magnitude can be pulled off now. The rot has gone too deep. Whatever your personal frustrations, Labour does not deserve the landslide it will have pocketed by the end of the year if Conservatives don’t ditch Rishi.
Study the result of every recent by-election, and you detect no great enthusiasm for Sir Drear Starmer. Quite the contrary. Wellingborough saw the Left’s total go up from 13,737 in 2019 to 13,844. A mere 107 votes. It was disillusioned Conservative voters like thee and me who handed Labour the seat on a silver salver. The Tory vote plunged from 32,277 in 2019 to 7,408. With Reform hoovering up 3,919, only 11,327 Right-wing voters bothered to go to the polling station. Where were the missing Conservatives? At home, chucking darts at the Rishi Sunak dartboard.
As long as Sunak remains, wild horses on their bended knees could not persuade those voters to give the Tories another chance. Hang on, Allison, won’t a fourth change of leader in as many years make the Conservatives a national laughing stock?
It sure will. Better to be mocked than deceased, I say. Anyway, people soon move on and I bet they will relish a feisty woman knocking seven bells out of drippy Keir.
Conservatives have a reputation for ruthlessness. I say, let’s play to our strengths! A leadership contest could be swift. No need for a national beauty parade. MPs whittle candidates down to two. Then, party members need to choose between the finalists. With online voting, the whole thing could be over in under a fortnight. By the end of May, the Conservatives will have themselves a brand new leader who is actually prepared to honour their manifesto pledges and Rishi Sunak will have brought forward his private-jet flight to California by six months.
I’ve got a question for all those Conservative MPs still insisting that the hugely unpopular PM will lead them into the general election while denigrating “rebels” who plot to oust him. What good is it being loyal to “petrified opinion”? To whom should you really owe your loyalty? To a member of the billionaire class you know full well will abandon you as soon as he has lost his party hundreds of seats or to the British people who deserve a Right-of-centre leader to stick up for them and fight the Left for the soul of our nation?
“Half a league, half a league, Half a league onward, All in the valley of Death rode the six hundred.”
The Conservative Party is not obliged to re-enact the pointless slaughter of The Charge of the Light Brigade, which appears to be the current strategy. Try another Tennyson poem, my favourite: “Some work of noble note, may yet be done”.
Pick a Conservative leader who will restore the faith of at least some Conservatives and give them something to hope for. Faced with the alternative, it’s got to be worth a try.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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clv101
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by clv101 »

but what about Britain? I am scared, quite frankly, hugely apprehensive. Afraid that our beloved country will be irretrievably lost under a moronocracy led by clod-hopping class warriors like Angela “Tory scum” Rayner.
The trouble with being apprehensive, fearful of what a Labour government might mean, is that we already know what a Tory government has meant. At the last election Johnson had a huge majority, huge power - he and the Tory party had free reign to do that they really thought needed doing - but no, Johnson's lies made it impossible to govern, the party then thought Truss was the best among them :roll: and under Sunak's watch the party has never been so unpopular.

Better the devil you know? Let's stick with the Tories? No way, I'm more than happy for Labour to 'have a go'. But I'm under no illusions that sunlit uplands are anywhere to be found.
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

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https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/20 ... ry-wipeout
No-one is prepared for the upcoming tory wipeout

One of the many problems with the mechanics of news production is that things that have ceased to shock also cease to get prominence. Collapsing councils, declining living standards, public services in crisis – these things rarely lead the papers for long, if at all, because they no longer surprise us. They’re merely the background drumbeat of What Britain Is Like in 2024. The result, though, is that we struggle to fully grasp what they mean. So the economy is now so bad that 3.7 million are now facing food insecurity, an increase of nearly 70 per cent in a single year? God. Boring. That’s not news.

The increasingly frequent signs that the public has made up its mind about whom to blame for all this now seems to be suffering from the same phenomenon. This week brought yet another poll showing a vast lead for the opposition, as YouGov put Labour on 44 per cent and the Tories on just 19 per cent. Labour is not reaching the heights it was during the Liz Truss weeks; but the Tories are frequently plumbing the same depths.
This should be shocking: more than twice as many voters going for Labour as Tory; the governing party on less than 20, only four points ahead of Reform. The problem is that shock new polls suggesting the Tories have hit record lows are now more frequent occurrences than Wednesdays. It’s not quite true to say that nobody paid attention: such polls are reliably cause for much excitement online, and are almost certainly a factor in some Tories seriously considering whether it might be worth changing leader for a third time this parliament, on the grounds that it surely can’t make things any worse. None the less, it’s hard to believe that the body politic has fully internalised what all this means. Tories hit new polling low; again the world continues to turn.

Here’s what it means. Plug the numbers from that YouGov survey for all the parties in England into the New Statesman’s Britain Elects model (others are available), and Labour comes out with 466 seats: a genuinely absurd majority of 282. (Tony Blair’s was 179.) The Tories, meanwhile, would win just 96, a wipeout much worse than 1997, when they held 165. Reform, thanks to the joys of first past the post, would win just one seat.
This would not just be a bad result for the Tories. It would displace 1906, when it won 156 seats, as the party’s worst result ever. It would give Keir Starmer as prime minister an unprecedented degree of political power, and would almost certainly leave the Conservatives – the “natural party of government” – struggling to put together a shadow Cabinet or fill select committees. In theory, the party would still be the opposition; in practice, that role would more likely fall to other bits of the Labour Party.

Oh, and the Britain Elects model doesn’t take account of tactical voting: given everything we know of both past elections and recent electoral history, it is entirely possible the Tories would not win as many as 96 seats at all. (They likely won’t do so badly as to cease to be the opposition, but the fact that that even needs saying is telling.) And although this YouGov survey was among the worst for the Tories, it was not radically out of step with the trend. Polls are snapshots, not predictions. None the less, if the election was held today, the best data we have suggests the result would be a Tory wipeout.

Yet it does not feel as if most of us are expecting this to happen. Sure, there are parts of the internet where breathlessly reposting such polls, or plotting paths to a “Canada, 1993” result – one in which a governing party is wiped out so badly it can never recover – is people’s idea of fun. But if your only engagement was to read the politics pages or watch the Sunday shows, you’d likely have no idea what could be coming.
There may be all sorts of reasons why everyone is downplaying this increasingly plausible outcome: media bias in favour of the Tory party, existing contact books, the status quo. Then there’s the fact that everyone – Tories, Labour, the press – is better served by portraying the election as competitive. A widespread if poorly grounded belief that the polls will narrow because, well, they just do, don’t they?

But they don’t always. And I can’t help but think that another reason we aren’t seriously discussing a Tory wipeout is because we struggle to imagine it. The Tories have dominated British politics for more than a century, and their internal power struggles have been shaping our lives, alas, for the past 14 years. The idea that they could be defeated so badly that it’s not clear they could even survive is unthinkable.

A Tory wipeout may not be the most likely outcome (although, frankly, it’s getting increasingly hard to find polling to support even that contention). But at this stage it shouldn’t be a surprising one. By this time next year, it is quite possible that the Tories will have been consigned to irrelevance, and Keir Starmer will be the most powerful prime minister in British history. Shouldn’t we at least start thinking about that?
Come gather round tories whereever you roam
And admit that the waters around you have grown
And accept it that soon you'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you is worth saving
Then you'd better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changing.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by UndercoverElephant »

Meanwhile, in the alternative reality inhabited by the Daily Express...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... top-labour
Boris Johnson to be deployed as part of radical Tory plan to stop Labour winning election

Britain is heading for a "3 PM election" with former prime ministers Boris Johnson and Lord Cameron returning to their scenes of greatest electoral triumph. Mr Johnson is expected to unleash his campaigning talents in the North of England while his former rival Lord Cameron will battle to keep seats in the South West blue. Tories believe that Labour's Sir Keir Starmer and Angela Rayner will struggle to match the combined charisma of Rishi Sunak and his two most successful predecessors.
Mind-boggling.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

UndercoverElephant wrote: 24 Mar 2024, 10:58 Meanwhile, in the alternative reality inhabited by the Daily Express...
TBH, surprised the Daily Suppress hasn't transferred allegiances to Reform...
Will be interesting to see the media landscape if the Tories do suffer election oblivion...
Who will The Times, Telegraph, Mail, Sun etc. put their backing behind ?
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Potemkin Villager
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

Mark wrote: 24 Mar 2024, 16:57
Will be interesting to see the media landscape if the Tories do suffer election oblivion...
Who will The Times, Telegraph, Mail, Sun etc. put their backing behind ?
Well considering the direction that Stormer's Even Newer Labour is going they could well fill the slot.
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

Can't see it myself - I think the choice is sticking with the Tories and hope they rebuild in opposition..., or throwing all their weight behind Reform...
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

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Another by-election in a tory held seat. Scott Benton has resigned. Only had a majority of 4000 anyway -- Labour will win this one by several country miles -- the question is whether Reform can beat the tories to second place. Brexit Party came 3rd in 2019.

EDIT: looks like it is going to be on May 2nd.
Last edited by UndercoverElephant on 25 Mar 2024, 17:28, edited 1 time in total.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Conservative government watch

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Tories have launched their local government campaign and it's hilarious:

https://action.conservatives.com/lifeunderlabour/

Apparently life under Labour will look like this:
Labour politicians across the country have no plan, which means you pay more tax whilst getting poorer services and a lower quality of life.
Hmmmm.....
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

Irony obviously isn't in the Tory dictionary...
No attempt to defend their sh1t show, just the old trope that Labour would be worse...

Reminds me of our dear old friend Stumuz, who doesn't post any more...
He blamed Gordon Brown for everything rotten under the Tories...!!??!!
Some people will fall for it - they always do - but not enough...
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Potemkin Villager
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

Phew good job we are not living in another dimension then! :shock: :roll: :lol:
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
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BritDownUnder
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by BritDownUnder »

Mark wrote: 25 Mar 2024, 19:55
Irony obviously isn't in the Tory dictionary...
No attempt to defend their sh1t show, just the old trope that Labour would be worse...

Reminds me of our dear old friend Stumuz, who doesn't post any more...
He blamed Gordon Brown for everything rotten under the Tories...!!??!!
Some people will fall for it - they always do - but not enough...
The Conservatives are not too clever right now. I put it down to them not having many Engineers or Scientists among their MPs. Clearly they are in full headless chicken about-to-be-voted-out mode.

I think stumuzz has a point about the Gordon Brown and Tony Blair regime. They were probably the last UK government that had the chance and, more importantly the money from a reasonably good economy and North Sea Oil, to make a genuine change to the UK in terms of energy. Instead they blew it all on the dash for gas and 'Cool Britannia' and the three Rs. They could have put in HELE supercritical coal stations, more Sizewell B clones or even started on tidal but did nothing. Probably they could have also stood up to the EU and got some of the UK's money back. The election of Tony Blair got me on the road to Australia for sure, as I just knew he would be a disaster for the UK in the end.
Chi Onwurah MP, Shadow Minister for Industrial Strategy, Science and Innovation, will discuss the importance of engineers and scientists in parliament and public life.
Chi Onwurah MP is a Chartered Engineer with a BEng in Electrical Engineering from Imperial College London and an MBA from Manchester Business School.

Now while Xi Jinping (President of China) and Juha Sipilä (Prime Minister of Finland) are both engineers, the UK Parliament appears to be dominated by lawyers, journalists, consultants and bankers. Few have any scientific qualifications and Chi is possibly the only chartered engineer out of 650 MPs.

Even today, the UK Minister of State for Universities and Science, the Minister of State for Climate Change and the Secretary of State for Health all studied (respectively) history, classics and PPE at Oxford.
G'Day cobber!
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Potemkin Villager
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

It is exceedingly heart warming to see how much Oxford University has selflessly, and with conspicuous success, contributed so much to the common good of the UK for centuries.

One of my nieces was offered a place there but turned it down because "the people are totally mad".

My take is that PPE is specifically designed for not necessarily very bright or critical psychos who feel entitled to a career in politics.
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
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BritDownUnder
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by BritDownUnder »

Potemkin Villager wrote: 27 Mar 2024, 12:09 It is exceedingly heart warming to see how much Oxford University has selflessly, and with conspicuous success, contributed so much to the common good of the UK for centuries.

One of my nieces was offered a place there but turned it down because "the people are totally mad".

My take is that PPE is specifically designed for not necessarily very bright or critical psychos who feel entitled to a career in politics.
Funny but very true!

There is something very wrong with the 'governance' of the UK and you could say many Western countries, particularly English speaking ones. The Conservative Party is a very extreme case of this. It seems to be attracting a certain type of people to its ranks particularly the Parliamentary party who are clever and ambitious, but also totally self interested. Once upon a time I thought that the Labour Party was the party of traitors and treasonists (and I still do), I thought the Conservatives had the national interest at heart (now I don't). Now I feel that for most Conservative MPs their time in Parliament is just an opportunity for networking, getting something on your CV, learning about the business/government interactions and learning all the loopholes and grants that can be had which will serve them well for a future more lucrative time in the higher echelons of UK businesses.

I get the sense that public figures know that we are in an epoch changing time and things will not be changing for the better. A bit like Romans in Western Europe in the late fourth and fifth Centuries AD.
G'Day cobber!
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Mark
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Re: Conservative government watch

Post by Mark »

BritDownUnder wrote: 28 Mar 2024, 01:04 Once upon a time I thought that the Labour Party was the party of traitors and treasonists (and I still do), I thought the Conservatives had the national interest at heart (now I don't).
It's funny how prejudices start and embed themselves through life...

Assume you were brought up in a very Conservative household...?
Maybe the Cambridge Spying Ring was in the news a lot when you were at a formative age ?
Maybe around the time that some on the 'left' were talking to the IRA or PLO or others when it was unfashionable to do so ?

For me, it's equally 'treasonist' to sell all your assets off to the Americans, Indians, Germans, French...
Or to use Chinese money to build your key infrastructure projects...
Or to deliberately trash your own manufacturing base...
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