Conservative party/opposition watch

[Potemkin Villager]

John Grace, another connoisseur of the Potemkin model of political science!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ation-bill

" Needs must, though. The government has to pretend it knows what it’s doing. Hell, it’s not as if it is doing anything else. You have to keep alert to avoid the tumbleweed in the corridors. This is a Potemkin administration. Nothing more. Existing only to look as if it is existing. It has no ideas. No plans. Just the hope that if it waits long enough then things will somehow mysteriously get better. Hold your nerve and all that."

[RevdTess]

John Major tried this in the last year of his premiership. Didn't work that time either.

[Potemkin Villager]

Indeed it did not!

[BritDownUnder]

Seems like Potemkin is a word often used by the Guardian to describe Tory lack of success in most things. I doubt the Labour party would be much more efficient in keeping the migrants out. I thought the meaning was to provide a facade of success. I don't think the UK immigration policy or measures can even show a facade of success.

Not sure what John Major did in his final year but I do recall his "Back to Basics" policy about the same time as his ministers had a lot of affairs or otherwise ended up with egg on their faces. I think even Major himself was guilty of a bit of hanky panky in his time.

[Potemkin Villager]

I thought the meaning was to provide a facade of success.

It is, or indeed it means to put on a show of things apparently working, to deceive, when they very plainly are not.
It's the endless pretending that sound decisions are being made by competent people cognizant of the depth of the shit we are in and that everything is tickety boo, that does my head in.

Personally I don't think the other lot will do any better if elected but hopefully they would be less sociopathic.

[RevdTess]

Personally I don't think the other lot will do any better if elected but hopefully they would be less sociopathic.

It's a bit sad that all we're able to hope for from Labour is roughly the same policies but without the sociopathy. Every announcement from Starmer at the moment seems to be "No we won't change Tory policies as there's no money to do anything different". I'm hoping that's just an appeal to the middle ground Tory voters. "Vote for us! We're basically conservatives but competent and not insane!"

[UndercoverElephant]

Personally I don't think the other lot will do any better if elected but hopefully they would be less sociopathic.

It's a bit sad that all we're able to hope for from Labour is roughly the same policies but without the sociopathy. Every announcement from Starmer at the moment seems to be "No we won't change Tory policies as there's no money to do anything different". I'm hoping that's just an appeal to the middle ground Tory voters. "Vote for us! We're basically conservatives but competent and not insane!"

Wait and see what is in the manifesto. There is absolutely no point in Starmer giving away any of the good stuff now (if there is any).

[clv101]

Starmer job at the moment is to win over several million folk who recently voted Tory. They've calculated there is more to be gained from past Tory voters than there is to lose from past Labour voters.

[Potemkin Villager]

...... I don't think the UK immigration policy or measures can even show a facade of success.......



It's not just immigration policy there is also the small matter of the huge number of folk who emigrate from the UK
every year to seek a better life elsewhere, this matter does not seem to nearly attract as much attention as immigration.

[mr brightside]

Interesting Panorama on the BBC last night, focusing on sleaze in the houses of parliament. People getting groped, complaints processes taking over a year...they all look like piss heads to me, can you be over the DD limit at work if you are an MP?

[dustiswhatweare]

Starmer job at the moment is to win over several million folk who recently voted Tory. They've calculated there is more to be gained from past Tory voters than there is to lose from past Labour voters.

Yes. Starmers strategy seems to be tapping in to 'vote against' rather than 'vote for'. Effectively he is asking Labour voters to trust him to do the 'right thing' once in office, but in the meantime hold your noses whilst wavering Tories are seduced in to voting Labour - trust me I know what I'm doing.

[Mark]

Starmer job at the moment is to win over several million folk who recently voted Tory. They've calculated there is more to be gained from past Tory voters than there is to lose from past Labour voters.

Yes. Starmers strategy seems to be tapping in to 'vote against' rather than 'vote for'. Effectively he is asking Labour voters to trust him to do the 'right thing' once in office, but in the meantime hold your noses whilst wavering Tories are seduced in to voting Labour - trust me I know what I'm doing.

Corbyn went into the election with a radical manifesto and was soundly defeated...
BoJo basically went in with 1 slogan - 'Get Brexit done' and won a massive victory...
So...., Labour's political spinners will be terrified of doing anything that will scare the horses....

We'll need some radical politics and policies at some point soon...
For Labour, it's a matter of judging the point at which things have got so bad that they can take enough of the people along with them...
Don't think that anything even slightly radical will emerge under Starmer though....
Which is why the right wing press are giving him a relatively easy ride so far...

Dread to think what radical policies might emerge from the Tories in opposition...

[clv101]

We'll need some radical politics and policies at some point soon...
For Labour, it's a matter of judging the point at which things have got so bad that they can take enough of the people along with them...
Don't think that anything even slightly radical will emerge under Starmer though....
Which is why the right wing press are giving him a relatively easy ride so far...

Dread to think what radical policies might emerge from the Tories in opposition...

When Labour have a 120 seat majority and a 5 year run in office I expect we'll see some radical policies - now is absolutely not the time to talk about it.

[Potemkin Villager]

When Labour have a 120 seat majority and a 5 year run in office I expect we'll see some radical policies - now is absolutely not the time to talk about it.

I still remember vividly the last time Labour won a landslide and for a very short period
actually felt that. maybe. things could only get better. I was living in NE England at the time
and was chastised for my naive optimism by a splendidly unrepentant, octogenarian, retired shipyard shop stewart,
Stalinist neighbour!

The day after an election win is usually as good as it gets for any new government.
It is generally downhill after that. I suspect they are currently not talking about radical
policies because they aint got any.

If elected, Starmer's ratings will plummet as it becomes obvious he is clueless and in the pocket of all the usual suspects.

[UndercoverElephant]

We'll need some radical politics and policies at some point soon...

History tells us when this will be: after everything else has been tried.

For Labour, it's a matter of judging the point at which things have got so bad that they can take enough of the people along with them...
Don't think that anything even slightly radical will emerge under Starmer though....

Starmer is like Blair -- he knows how to win. So long as he remains in charge, he will do as much positive as he thinks he can do and still win the next election.

Which is why the right wing press are giving him a relatively easy ride so far...

I don't think that is true at all. Their problem is that he is very hard to sling mud at. He's a difficult target. Corbyn, by comparison, was a sitting duck.

Dread to think what radical policies might emerge from the Tories in opposition...

I believe the tories will have an all-out civil war in opposition. It is going to be very unpleasant, which I suspect is part of the reason a lot of tory MPs are deciding not to stand at the next election.