Ease the Transition
After Oil Peaks, Geonomics Wins the Next Wave
What exactly is going to happen as the world tries to shift away from its dependence on petroleum?
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To hasten and ease the transition to alternative energy sources, we could use geonomics. That is, we'd collect the annual rental value of oil, of all natural resources, even of surface land -- trillions of dollars each year -- use the proceeds to pay ourselves a dividend a la Alaska's but heftier, and meanwhile quit taxing our efforts and quit subsidizing social services (albeit corporate welfare is not exactly a true 'service'). Geonomics -- replacing taxes with land dues, and replacing government subsidies with ?Rent? dividends for all -- lets industrial economies cure themselves of their addiction to oil both economically and politically.
First, the elimination of subsidies. Since fossil fuel industries win more subsidies, like syn-fuel research funds, than do the various solar/wind powers, zero subsidies totals a far bigger loss to the entrenched ways. Advantage, alternatives.
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Second, the elimination of taxes. Since fossil fuels dodge more taxes with gimmicks like the oil depletion allowance than do the various solar/wind powers, zero taxes will mean a bigger saving for the new technologies, more burdened by taxes on wages. Advantage, alternatives.
Third, the presence of land dues. With the public recovery of ?Rent?, oil companies would pay society each year to claim oil fields. Owners of oil fields would not hoard any easy oil in accessible wells but use that first and would sell off any fields that they are not using or not using efficiently. Losing these unearned billions of ?Rents?, oil companies would lose their unholy hold over politicians and policies. Since most alternatives -- geothermal, wave, wind, photovoltaic, etc -- occupy sites of lower value and consume very few resources, they'd pay little or no ?Rent?. Advantage, alternatives.
Fourth, the presence of dividends. Paying out recovered ?Rent? as a Citizens Dividend would democratize investment dollars, so newly endowed oil workers and penny investors could form their own companies and co-operatives. They'd have the wherewithal to buy, and the land dues for oil fields would urge present owners to sell, thereby helping break up giant oil companies into smaller firms, perhaps one per field. Smaller, they'd have less political power and in competition, they'd keep supply up and price reasonable even as untapped reserves dwindle. Meanwhile the solar technologies, not exactly awash in cash, would benefit from every extra dollar coming their way via the Citizens Dividend. Advantage, alternatives.
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After Oil Peaks, Geonomics Wins the Next Wave
Moderator: Peak Moderation
After Oil Peaks, Geonomics Wins the Next Wave
After Oil Peaks, Geonomics Wins the Next Wave
Re: After Oil Peaks, Geonomics Wins the Next Wave
This just reads like gobbledegook to me. I cant understqand it. Whats is the 'annual rental value of a natural resource'?That is, we'd collect the annual rental value of oil, of all natural resources,
how do I rent a barrel of oil? I can purchase it outright or put an option on it, but I've no idea what 'renting' a consumable means.
Is this article nonsense or am I missing something?
Well, I had a reply all written and was just about to hit "submit" when BAM! All the power went down. (It lasted only about 5 mins but the network was down for ages). Was quite a funny experience, for the first time ever, I actually grinned when my screen went black, and I thought "yes, time for people to wake up!").
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I?m glad I?ve got your attention, I?ve been planning to try and raise this for a while, but have been searching for the right article to quote. When I saw the peak oil one I thought AHA!! ? but now realise I could have chosen a better one.
Land Value Tax (LVT, a.k.a. Single Tax) is about removing tax from useful activity (i.e. income) and resources that can be grown (i.e. VAT), and placing it instead upon resources that are limited (i.e. land and the minerals contained therein).
MacG - it is indeed a coherent system, and has been around since circa 1860. (I realise now that I could have chosen a more enlightened article to introduce the topic.)
It was first proposed by Henry George, of whom Albert Einstein had to say ?Men like Henry George are rare unfortunately. One cannot imagine a more beautiful combination of intellectual keenness, artistic form, and fervent love of justice.?
Skeptik - the intricacy is in the use of the word ?rent? (not the same as in housing or a dvd from blockbuster!). From the above article:
Henry George on SustecWeb:
www.henrygeorge.org
Download ?Progress and poverty? by Henry George here (zipped word doc).
I recommend this download from Julian Darley?s GPM: Dave Wetzel on congestion charging and land value taxes
(A very good interview - LVT discussion starts 36mins in).
Speak about it at the yahoo groups landcafe
SustecWeb: http://www.sustecweb.co.uk/past/sustec82/#eight
Feasta Land conference (2003): http://www.feasta.org/events/landconf.htm
Feasta housing group: http://www.feasta.org/housing.htm
CORI Justice Commission: http://www.cori.ie/justice/soc_issues/taxation.htm
(A more intellectual journal) Econ Journal Watch www.econjournalwatch.org
Robert Clancy at cooperative individualism
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I?m glad I?ve got your attention, I?ve been planning to try and raise this for a while, but have been searching for the right article to quote. When I saw the peak oil one I thought AHA!! ? but now realise I could have chosen a better one.
Land Value Tax (LVT, a.k.a. Single Tax) is about removing tax from useful activity (i.e. income) and resources that can be grown (i.e. VAT), and placing it instead upon resources that are limited (i.e. land and the minerals contained therein).
MacG - it is indeed a coherent system, and has been around since circa 1860. (I realise now that I could have chosen a more enlightened article to introduce the topic.)
It was first proposed by Henry George, of whom Albert Einstein had to say ?Men like Henry George are rare unfortunately. One cannot imagine a more beautiful combination of intellectual keenness, artistic form, and fervent love of justice.?
Skeptik - the intricacy is in the use of the word ?rent? (not the same as in housing or a dvd from blockbuster!). From the above article:
And:Make government dependent on ?Rent? (all the money we spend on the nature we use), and government will take a stronger interest in protecting the source of its revenue -- nature. Redirect ?Rent? from oil companies and their brethren to the public treasury, and those firms won't have the political clout to circumvent the law; government would make polluters pay.
Henry George on SustecWeb:
There?s a vast array of further resources available on the web, here?s a few:Since the economic value of raw land and its natural resources results entirely from social action, that value should be shared by all and not accrue to any single "owner". George said that this result could easily be accom-plished by taxing away all or most of the "economic rent" -- i.e. the rent that raw land or its resources would bring on the open market.
www.henrygeorge.org
Download ?Progress and poverty? by Henry George here (zipped word doc).
I recommend this download from Julian Darley?s GPM: Dave Wetzel on congestion charging and land value taxes
(A very good interview - LVT discussion starts 36mins in).
Speak about it at the yahoo groups landcafe
SustecWeb: http://www.sustecweb.co.uk/past/sustec82/#eight
Feasta Land conference (2003): http://www.feasta.org/events/landconf.htm
Feasta housing group: http://www.feasta.org/housing.htm
CORI Justice Commission: http://www.cori.ie/justice/soc_issues/taxation.htm
www.progress.orgLand value taxes
Taxes on wealth are minimal in Ireland.We are the exception to the rule among developed countries in having no residential property tax. Revenue is negligible from capital acquisitions tax because it has a very high threshold where bequests and gifts within families are concerned and it treats family farms and firms very generously. Within this area the issue of land rent taxation is one that has received added attention over the past year. Two papers at our 2004 Social Policy Conference directly addressed this issue (see O?Siochru, 2004:23-57; and Dunne, 2004:93- 122) and the Chambers of Commerce of Ireland published a report entitled Local Authority Funding ? Government in Denial (2004) which called for an annual site tax. Where residential property tax is concerned CORI Justice Commission believes the introduction of an annual land rent tax would have a very positive impact on Ireland?s tax situation. It would lead to a substantial broadening of the base at a single stroke and would also lead to a reduction of the tax-take required from other sources, thus providing an opportunity for Government to produce a just and fair tax system.
(A more intellectual journal) Econ Journal Watch www.econjournalwatch.org
Robert Clancy at cooperative individualism
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we ?
House the homeless?
Reduce unemployment?
End the crime wave?
Solve the drug problem?
Control dishonesty in government?
Have a decent educational system?
Bring about world peace?
These are among the laments that are heard. Well, why can't we?
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A formula more potent than Einstein's is there ready to be applied -- as soon as people are ready to go deeper than complaints about and palliatives for our problems.
Anything that shifts the burden of tax away from labour and onto materials is a good thing. At the moment advantage is given to those who can do the most with the least labour and labour intensive practices are penalised. A better system would be one that advantaged those who can do the most with the least materials (inc energy) without penalising labour intensive practices.
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SherryMayo
- Posts: 235
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
The original version of monopoly (called the landlords game) was invented by a quaker, suffragette and actress Lizzie Magie (a follower of Henery Georges iideas) to demonstrate the unfairness of the current system (around 1900) where big landlords gain in power - it could as an instructive alternative be played with the fairer "Georgist" rules including land-tax. Then the money goes round and round and everyone stays in the game (no-one wins, no-one goes bankrupt) until you get bored.
http://www.geocities.com/henrygeorgesch ... igins.html
http://www.geocities.com/henrygeorgesch ... igins.html
Oh dear! That was quite some link collection to digest! Will take a couple of days actually, but I promise - I will do it!GD wrote: I?m glad I?ve got your attention...
Counterpunch: Silvio Gesell
From Wikipedia's Henry George Page:MacG wrote:Counterpunch: Silvio Gesell
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Notable is also Silvio Gesells Freiwirtschaft, in which Gesell combined Henry George's ideas about land ownership and rents with his own theory about the money system and interest rates and his successive developement of Freigeld.
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From the wiki page:
I've long been a big fan of the line of thought that says that since governments (and by their leave, corporations) have almost exclusive access to our land's natural resources, every citizen should receive an income or dividend from the sale or consumption of these resources without any obligation to seek work in order to qualify.
I think I first came across the concept in a Robert Heinlein novel in my youth, and then later as the "Citizen's Income" policy of the Green Party. I actually joined the party for that idea alone, it seemed so obviously a good idea.
Preach it, brother!"George considered it a great injustice to restrict a man from using natural resources, and believed such restrictions were equivalent to slavery, a concept known as wage slavery."
I've long been a big fan of the line of thought that says that since governments (and by their leave, corporations) have almost exclusive access to our land's natural resources, every citizen should receive an income or dividend from the sale or consumption of these resources without any obligation to seek work in order to qualify.
I think I first came across the concept in a Robert Heinlein novel in my youth, and then later as the "Citizen's Income" policy of the Green Party. I actually joined the party for that idea alone, it seemed so obviously a good idea.
This article appeared on the PowerSwitch front page today; the author?s quite a well known georgist.
If PO is a world-class event, after which mankind is in un-chartered territory, then perhaps his 300 year analysis on the upside of industrial growth could get distorted somewhat? I wonder how he would forecast this with peak oil in mind. I mean why would people struggle to meet mortgage payments apart from the increasing house prices? Increased fuel / commodity prices? (also leading to) Job losses?
If a bad winter this year causes: firms to shut down / lay off staff / more 3 generation households etc, I?d imagine the ?correction? to start in 2006. In fact, some believe this to be the case anyway (a reported 12% quarterly drop in Glasgow house prices disappeared down the memory hole recently, but was preserved in the HPC forum). Even the SIPP?s apparently aren?t going to be all they?re made out to be. Maybe the recession is coming sooner. But then again, I?m no economist, I haven?t studied 300yrs of economic cycles?
If PO is a world-class event, after which mankind is in un-chartered territory, then perhaps his 300 year analysis on the upside of industrial growth could get distorted somewhat? I wonder how he would forecast this with peak oil in mind. I mean why would people struggle to meet mortgage payments apart from the increasing house prices? Increased fuel / commodity prices? (also leading to) Job losses?
If a bad winter this year causes: firms to shut down / lay off staff / more 3 generation households etc, I?d imagine the ?correction? to start in 2006. In fact, some believe this to be the case anyway (a reported 12% quarterly drop in Glasgow house prices disappeared down the memory hole recently, but was preserved in the HPC forum). Even the SIPP?s apparently aren?t going to be all they?re made out to be. Maybe the recession is coming sooner. But then again, I?m no economist, I haven?t studied 300yrs of economic cycles?