France

[adam2]

A lot of people must consider England superior to France, look at the risks taken and the hardships willingly suffered daily by those escaping France in small boats and fleeing to England.
Not many going the other way.

[kenneal - lagger]

France suits the French and the UK suits most of us Brits. It's a culture thing!

Is it just one world that we live in? Physically, Yes, but mentally, No. It's a lot of different cultures which are worth keeping and many people think are worth fighting for. Just look at the number of people fighting little wars of liberation at the moment. People's cultures are dear to them.

[Mark]

But we are Mark. Why are people dieing to get to the UK if it's such a terrible place? Why did the industrial revolution happen here and not France?
If it makes you feel any better, you could flagellate yourself whilst chanting "I'm ashamed of being English I wish I was French"
This thread was about how much better France and the French are. I could not disagree more. Which is very salient to the thread.

No, the post is mostly about how France seems to be better prepared for the coming decline, through having different investment priorities and better planning than the UK.

Only you could read it being about the French somehow being racially 'better'... this probably says more about your prejudices and petty hatreds - lets face it, you can't even bring yourself to accept that the British Empire is no longer...

And just for the record, "I'm not ashamed of being English and I don't wish I was French".
However, I do think there are good aspects and learning points that can be taken from most countries/cultures to help us cope with the upcoming decline...
We would be wise to copy examples of best practice rather than resorting to knee jerk xenophobia.

No idea why, but I will do you the courtesy of trying to answer your points.
(1) Why are people dieing (sic: dying) to get to the UK if it's such a terrible place?
My take is that it's a combination of the myth/reality circulated by the traffickers and at the camps that they will be treated better in the UK, the possibility that they already have relatives here and the point that you've already raised, namely that they probably speak a level of English, so they hope to settle in better/quicker. NOTE: None of this means that I believe what they do is a good idea.
(2) Why did the industrial revolution happen here and not France?
As with most major changes, it's complex and not down to one factor:
https://www.historytoday.com/industrial ... here-first
Assume your preferred theory is Gregory Clark's in 'A Farewell to Alms' ??

[Potemkin Villager]

The success of English in becoming the Lingua Franca
of the world rather than French is one key driver in refugees
wanting to cross the English Channel. If it was still French the
numbers would reduce significantly.

[adam2]

The French have never forgiven the rest of the world for accepting that the Zero degrees meridian goes through Greenwich in England.
For some years the french authorities produced rival maps and charts with the zero meridian passing through Paris, this never caught on.

England led the world in map making, navigation, timekeeping, and the like. French maps were of doubtful accuracy and centuries ago were known for inflating the area of french possessions. When more accurate maps were reluctantly used, one french emperor allegedly complained that he "was losing more land to map makers than to enemies"

[Mark]

The French have never forgiven the rest of the world for accepting that the Zero degrees meridian goes through Greenwich in England.

Probably true - pride is a terrible thing.

But it's also true that a minority of Brits still hark back to the (inferior) Imperial system for measurement, rather than Metric.
Recently noticed that some right wing papers (Express & Mail) are pushing again for the return to pounds and ounces...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics ... s-scrapped
Any move to do this would be highly inefficient - and costly

As I said before, we should take the best from everywhere.

[adam2]

I am in favour of metric measures for two reasons, firstly much simpler to understand. The yoof of today struggle enough with grams and kilograms, they could never manage pounds and ounces, not forgetting stones, hundredweight, and pennyweights.

The other reason is that metric measures are the same everywhere. Unlike miles and gallons. Or even "wine gallons" and "reputed quarts" and not forgetting gills.

[Mark]

France's war on plastic packaging for fruit and veg:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p09yd5zr

[Mark]

The success of English in becoming the Lingua Franca
of the world rather than French is one key driver in refugees
wanting to cross the English Channel. If it was still French the
numbers would reduce significantly.

English to be ditched as ‘working language’ of EU from next year:
https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/08/french-t ... -14736441/

Sounds like a backward step to me - suspect it will just slow up EU working....
Doubt it will make more refugees speak it or want to stay in France....

[kenneal - lagger]

I suspect it will take a long time for the shared language between delegates and MEPs to become French or German though as the language the US speaks would still be the most popular language to learn.