Labour Party Watch

What can we do to change the minds of decision makers and people in general to actually do something about preparing for the forthcoming economic/energy crises (the ones after this one!)?

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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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I will be astonished if the campaign to rejoin the EU gets anywhere at all. The number of people who actually believe it is politically achievable is tiny.
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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OK...having spent the last few days talking to Labour people online, I have come to the conclusion that we are seeing the beginning of the end of Labour as a major force in British politics. The path is opening up to their complete implosion. Time and again people try to send the message that Labour has forgotten it is supposed to be representing the working class, and that identity politics is killing it. This article...

https://theparrhesiadiaries.medium.com/ ... 2c7d70c157

...explains it well:
The crusade around identity politics and its encouragement of separation, contradicts the unity required for the Labour Party to be an effective political force able to bring about meaningful change.

Identity politics and its obsession with our differences, instead of bringing people closer together, creates barriers, whether between party members or in society in general.

Identity politics is entirely antithetical to class solidarity and reduces class to just another identity, considering it only in its intersection with race, gender and sexuality. Identitarians fail to understand class is different, that class is a social relation which can unite people regardless of their differences, biological or otherwise.

For the identitarians in the Labour Party, the identity crusade is the number one battle they want to win. It replaces class politics as the primary motivation for party membership. They preoccupy themselves with language-policing and virtue signalling, rather than striving to implement the party’s historical purpose of representing working people in government. To these activists, a fair economy that “works for the many, not the few” is a secondary consideration.
Labour isn't willing to listen to this message. The people who in control of Labour, and the bulk of the remaining activists, cannot accept that identity politics is the primary cause of Labour's crisis, because identity politics is their primary concern. So instead of listening to the people who are leaving Labour, they are attacking them. But this can only lead to further dreadful results, and that means more and more people are just going to give up on Labour. Why vote Labour if you know they can't win and wonder if they have a future, unless you belong to the small minority for whom identity politics is more important than anything else? If voting Labour has become nothing more than a protest vote, then even more people will decide to vote for somebody else...greens, nationalists, maybe even Farage's new party. Meanwhile, the tories have moved economically towards the centre (at least for now) and are firmly centre-right on social issues, which means they appeal lower down the economic spectrum as well as the large number of people who are sick of identity politics.

A lot of people are assuming Labour will eventually recover, but there is no law of politics that says major parties in 2-party political systems cannot die. Sometimes they do die. What I am having trouble imagining is what will end up taking Labour's place if they really are finished.
Lurkalot2
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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UndercoverElephant wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:54 pm . What I am having trouble imagining is what will end up taking Labour's place if they really are finished.
I've been discussing this with some friends on facebook. Some have wondered if we will see the labour party split into a more centralist half and a more socialist half as we really can't see how the infighting will be resolved. It would be depressing if that were to happen as it will only serve to split the voter base too and the labour party or parties will become increasingly irrelevant.
kenneal - lagger
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Re: Labour Party Watch

Post by kenneal - lagger »

A year ago people were wondering if the Tory Party would split. No talk of that now! A year truly is "a long time in politics."
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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Lurkalot2 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:40 pm
UndercoverElephant wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:54 pm . What I am having trouble imagining is what will end up taking Labour's place if they really are finished.
I've been discussing this with some friends on facebook. Some have wondered if we will see the labour party split into a more centralist half and a more socialist half as we really can't see how the infighting will be resolved. It would be depressing if that were to happen as it will only serve to split the voter base too and the labour party or parties will become increasingly irrelevant.
This has already happened once, of course.
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Re: Labour Party Watch

Post by kenneal - lagger »

I've just been having a discussion on the Fracking Hell UK Facebook page about the problems for climate mitigation and generally caused by immigration. At least I was trying to have a discussion but an investigative journalist by the name of Paddy McGuffin and a chap called Martin both kept calling me a racist because I wanted to stop all immigration. Even using the word "everyone" means that I am a racist now.

It's no wonder people are leaving the Labour Party in droves.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Lurkalot2
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Re: Labour Party Watch

Post by Lurkalot2 »

UndercoverElephant wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 11:34 pm
Lurkalot2 wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 6:40 pm
UndercoverElephant wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 7:54 pm . What I am having trouble imagining is what will end up taking Labour's place if they really are finished.
I've been discussing this with some friends on facebook. Some have wondered if we will see the labour party split into a more centralist half and a more socialist half as we really can't see how the infighting will be resolved. It would be depressing if that were to happen as it will only serve to split the voter base too and the labour party or parties will become increasingly irrelevant.
This has already happened once, of course.
A point that didn't go unnoticed in our discussions when the likes of Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams split to form the Social Democrates. Nor for that matter was their alliance with the liberals missed by some who were quite derogatory about it. Even though i would consider myself a left winger i'm also fairly pragmatic and the distrust , fear or hatred of anything considered farish left seems quite ingrained in this country and i don't think anything other than a centralist labour party is going to stand much chance of getting into government.
In response to ken's post i've come across the same when the idea of reducing immigration is mentioned. Accusations of racism , comments about how immigrants are helping the economy and the "fault" lies with those who pay low wages or who don't erect affordable housing.
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Re: Labour Party Watch

Post by Snail »

It seems to me that identity politics (and wokism) is cheaper than class politics. That's why labour now focuses on identity and why the middle-class like to go on about it. Limits of growth and the cake. Improving lower-class increasingly threatens the middle-class which is still the most vocal/powerful voting bloc.

Labour splitting three ways (English, Scottish, Welsh) would be a start. And concentrating again on class for tomorrow rather than identity politics for today.
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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Huge by-election result. Looks like Labour is in freefall.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-b ... s-57472032

They have been reduced from coming second 2017 on 11,474 to 4th on just 622 votes. Mass desertion from Labour to libdems, plus large numbers of ex-labour voters staying at home.
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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It was only a 52% turn out so a lot of Tories must have stayed at home as well. In a place like Amersham the alternative to the Tories was always going to be the so called Centre Party, the LibDems.
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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kenneal - lagger wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:57 pm In a place like Amersham the alternative to the Tories was always going to be the so called Centre Party, the LibDems.
Corbyn's Labour came second in 2017 with 11,000 votes. Presumably those people haven't gone anywhere.
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PS_RalphW
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Re: Labour Party Watch

Post by PS_RalphW »

I hadn't even realised there was a by-election, there was so little media coverage. But how is a swing away from the Tories of 24,000 votes reported here as a defeat for Labour?

I was wondering what the local reasons were that the Tories did so badly, and I found

1 HS2 goes through the constituency

2 they voted heavily to remain in Europe

And, I suspect,

3. They are old fashioned Conservatives who liked the preBoris party, and think he is a nasty little oik who has got above his station and is selling off the nation to the highest bidder. The nation needs to stay in the same ownership - theirs.
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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It isn't being reported as a defeat for Labour. It is being reported as a victory for the LibDems, which it is. The Labour vote collapsing isn't as much of a story as it might have been, because it is the extension of an existing pattern. There's lots of things going on here, but it is now clear that Kier Starmer commands no loyalty whatsoever for Labour voters. He's about as inspiring as blob of jelly. I posted it here with a comment about Labour because this is a thread about Labour.
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Re: Labour Party Watch

Post by kenneal - lagger »

Could it have been some tactical voting by Labour supporters? Labour and the LibDems have been asking their voters to do this for some time. I do appreciate that there were probably a lot of stay at homes among Labour voters but could it be a case of "couldn't be bothered"?

The Green Party candidate, who came third, is a local councillor here in West Berkshire. She will be sounding off when she gets home!!
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UndercoverElephant
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Re: Labour Party Watch

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Yes to tactical voting and yes to couldn't be bothered. The problem for Labour is the scale of it. It is beginning to look like Kier Starmer just doesn't have any of the "X-factor" Blair had. What does he stand for? What does Labour stand for under his leadership? Nobody knows, and it is looking increasingly like he has zero chance at the next election, even if the tories really f*ck up. I think he may be gone before that happens.
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