Timetable set to phase out high-energy light bulbs

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 27 Sep 2007, 13:41

Anyone want to buy a box of dimmer controls?

http://environment.independent.co.uk/cl ... 005291.ece

PA
Published: 27 September 2007

A bid to phase out all high-energy light bulbs on sale in British shops was announced by the Government today.

Environment Secretary Hilary Benn said he wanted to see the energy wasting bulbs start to disappear from the shelves in January and phased out by 2011.

He told the Labour conference that retailers, energy suppliers and lighting manufacturers were taking part in the voluntary initiative.

Greenpeace said the "long overdue" announcement would help cut CO2 emissions, but pointed out that most retailers had already agreed to remove the bulbs following their own campaign.

From January 2008, stocks of 150 watt light bulbs will not be replaced by retailers, 100 watt bulbs the following year and 40 watt bulbs the year after that, Mr Benn told delegates.

He also indicated that he wanted to see manufacturers phasing out their least efficient products such as energy-wasting TVs.

Mr Benn said the move would save five million tonnes of CO2 per year from 2011.

He said: "The major retailers and energy suppliers are now leading a voluntary initiative, with the strong support of the lighting industry and the Government, to help phase out traditional high-energy light bulbs.

"We need to turn them off - for good."

Post by **adam2** » 27 Sep 2007, 16:03

Whilst this sounds like a good idea, I fear that the law of un-intended consequences will take over and result in an increase in energy use for lighting.

AFAIK, the ban only applies to GLS, candle, golfball and similar mains voltage incandescent lamps.
Both 12 volt halogen, and 230 volt halogen will still be available, and will no doubt be used even more widely. Halogen lamps are more efficient than traditional incandescent lamps, but only slightly.

If as a result of this ban, a 100 watt GLS lamp is replaced with a 20 or 23 watt CFL then a clear saving results.
However I fear that most home owners (encouraged by good advertising) will take the opportunity to "upgrade" or "modernise" to "energy saving halogen lighting"
In the unlikely event that a 100 watt GLS lamp is replaced with two 12 volt, 50 watt halogen lamps, then power use will increase by about 10% due to the losses in the transformers.
It is however much more likely that the 100 watt GLS lamp will be replaced by from eight to twelve halogen lamps, thus increasing the load from 100 watts to at least 850 watts and possibly as much as 1,300 watts!

Apparently no one will buy a house without a few dozen halogen spotlights or downlighters.

Any way I doubt that the ban will be enforced in street markets, stolen bicycles, illegally imported cigarettes, and pirate DVDs are openly sold, so I doubt that anyone will worry about light bulbs!

Post by **clv101** » 27 Sep 2007, 16:24

If as a result of this ban, a 100 watt GLS lamp is replaced with a 20 or 23 watt CFL then a clear saving results.
However I fear that most home owners (encouraged by good advertising) will take the opportunity to "upgrade" or "modernise" to "energy saving halogen lighting"

No way, most people aren't going to go to the considerable expense of fitting halogen lighting when they can buy a CFL for a couple of quid.

Post by **adam2** » 27 Sep 2007, 16:49

[quote="clv101"No way, most people aren't going to go to the considerable expense of fitting halogen lighting when they can buy a CFL for a couple of quid.[/quote]

I am not sure of that, a great many householders are already going to the expense of installing halogen lighting.
Any suggestion, via good advertising, that halogen is good or green or energy saving, will probably result in more such installations.

Halogen downlights seem to be the default choice for new properties and for refurbishments.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 27 Sep 2007, 16:55

At least you can now get CFLs and LEDS which will replace most halogen bulbs. LEDs would be the best option of all I expect.

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 27 Sep 2007, 17:55

I see a boost in sales of the following, once we start getting significant powercuts:

disposable batteries;
rechargeable batteries;
battery powered lights;
battery powered other stuff;
off-grid home power systems/components;
candles;
3G adapters/data downloads from mobile providers
ovens (not powered by electricity)
hob-kettles
camping equipment of all sorts that would help in a powercut
landline phones that don't need mains power

I think that there will always be someone looking to get hold of some under-the-counter light-bulbs. In order to be successful, the government only has to get most people to co-operate. I'm sure that halogens will eventually be restricted too; especially now that CFL replacements are becoming available.

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 27 Sep 2007, 18:04

The main problem I have with this is that it is a voluntary code of practice. Yet again government proves how spineless it is.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Sep 2007, 21:38

Remember this from two years ago: Lights Out For Incandescents? The government may be slow but they get there in the end.

Cabrone · Post by **Cabrone** » 27 Sep 2007, 22:24

I'm sure the power industry will be looking at this ban with interest as CFLs have lousy power factors which will affect the amount of reactive power that the transmission co's + District Network Operators provide.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 27 Sep 2007, 22:53

Andy Hunt wrote:At least you can now get CFLs and LEDS which will replace most halogen bulbs. LEDs would be the best option of all I expect.

Yeah but we have 12V Hals embedded in our kitchen and bathroom ceilings and I spent £100 on nice CFL replacements (complete with transformers) before realising I had to take the ceiling to bits to replace the transformers

they didn't just slide out.

Those things should have been banned from new building (our kit. is in a new extension to the house) YEARS ago! Apart from owt else they don't 1/2 get hot and (in the case of the Bathroom) are right next to the loft insulation, they're a fire hazard!

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 27 Sep 2007, 23:14

RenewableCandy wrote:...Apart from owt else they don't 1/2 get hot and (in the case of the Bathroom) are right next to the loft insulation, they're a fire hazard!

We have them in our bathroom, although we hardly ever use them. When we upgraded our loft insulation, we (well, actually, my more agile OH

) battled in our very confined loft space to build a box between the rafters over the lamps so that the insulation does not come into contact with the bulbs.

Also, you can fit compact fluorescents into halogen GU10 mains voltage fittings, which don't get as hot.

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/varian ... p?var=4056

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 27 Sep 2007, 23:20

Adam1 wrote:
Also, you can fit compact fluorescents into halogen GU10 mains voltage fittings, which don't get as hot.

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/varian ... p?var=4056

That's worth knowing but sadly no help in our particular case. We've just replaced them all (50W bulbs I ask you, 1kW to light a kitchen

!!) with 20W ones.

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 28 Sep 2007, 00:00

RenewableCandy wrote:
Adam1 wrote:
Also, you can fit compact fluorescents into halogen GU10 mains voltage fittings, which don't get as hot.

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/varian ... p?var=4056
That's worth knowing but sadly no help in our particular case. We've just replaced them all (50W bulbs I ask you, 1kW to light a kitchen !!) with 20W ones.

That's still a 60% saving - isn't that the government's 2050 target! You could use a dimmer to save a bit more, although it might be tricky finding 400W dimmers that work with 12V halogens. Also, I'm not sure how efficient they are, as a certain percentage of the energy is lost in the dimmer; presumably this is trivial relative to the amount of energy the bulbs would use if they were on full blast.

I was looking for a picture on the internet of the boxing in method I referred to above. I hope my explanation made sense. It was very easy to do. (My carpentry skills are pretty limited). We used masking tape around the edges between the box and the rafters to keep the inside completely free of stray Warmcel 100, which gets into every nook and cranny.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 28 Sep 2007, 11:04

Adam1 wrote:
RenewableCandy wrote:
Adam1 wrote:
Also, you can fit compact fluorescents into halogen GU10 mains voltage fittings, which don't get as hot.

http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/varian ... p?var=4056
That's worth knowing but sadly no help in our particular case. We've just replaced them all (50W bulbs I ask you, 1kW to light a kitchen !!) with 20W ones.
That's still a 60% saving - isn't that the government's 2050 target! You could use a dimmer to save a bit more,

Yeah I need to look into dimmers, because some types actually don't save any energy at all! And I can't slip my trusty leccymeter (ooh there's another possible Christmas present, for Gadget-Man) into a light switch to check this.

As it is our kitchen has 6 lightswitches!! I just turn on the most useful 1-or-2. It would help also if the previous people hand't decided that black kitchen surfaces ON THE WALLS looked cool...must get rid of them, the room'll be miles brighter then.

Post by **adam2** » 28 Sep 2007, 14:19

"Yeah I need to look into dimmers, because some types actually don't save any energy at all! And I can't slip my trusty leccymeter (ooh there's another possible Christmas present, for Gadget-Man) into a light switch to check this."

All domestic dimmers save energy, but nothing like as much as is commonly supposed.
The losses in the dimmer are typically 1% or 2% of the connected load, this may be demonstrated by the fact that a dimmer handling say 300 watts gets warm. If no losses occured it would stay cold, if the losses were more than a few watts it would get as hot an electric heater, which it does not.

The problem lies in the fact that when an incandescent lamp is dimmed, the efficiency drops dramaticly.
A 100 watt lamp dimmed to give the same light as a 15 watt lamp, still consumes about 60 watts. Better by far to use a 15 watt lamp, or better still to use a 3 or 4 watt CFL.

If desired, this may be demonstated as follows, obtain a 100 watt lamp* and a 15 watt* lamp. Connect the 100 watt lamp to a dimmer, and adjust so that it gives the same light as the 15 watt one.
It will be noted that the dimmed 100 watt lamp is much hotter than the un-dimmed 15 watt one.
* for this simple demonstration to work, both lamps must be the same physical size.

Flourescent lamps can be dimmed with little loss of efficiency, and LEDs get more efficient if dimmed. Unfortunatly most types are not compatible with standard dimmers.