"ban gas in new homes"

[adam2]

It has been suggested that within 6 years, that new homes should be prohibited from connection to mains gas.

In order to reduce carbon emissions from domestic gas consumption.

(I have put this news in the electrical section since electricity is the obvious alternative)

Electric induction hobs to replace gas.
Limited electric heating and improved insulation to replace gas boilers.

The safety industry have long wanted to restrict and eventually ban gas cooking, so this looks like the beginning of the end for domestic gas cooking, at least in new homes.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47306766

Edited to add link.

[BritDownUnder]

Something I considered when I bought my house about 8 years ago was to get a two burner gas hob fitted into the work surface in the 'cooking room' as I already had bottled gas supplied to the house (2 x 45kg gas bottles) to complement my electric stove.

It gave a bit of flexibility in times of electricity shortages, and as it was bottled gas it would last several months and be free of grid disconnections and natural gas shortages. I eventually discounted the idea on the grounds of capital and connection/installation costs for the equipment. A $15 single burner camping stove was purchased instead with 200 gram cylinders which the wife is very happy with. A store of 24 0.2kg cylinders is kept in the garage, each cylinder lasting several hours at full load.

Natural gas connection in our town in Australia was offered for a connection fee of $125 and ongoing standing charge of $200 per year. At the time this $200 per year was about a quarter of my total annual power bill (due to solar grid feed in tarifs).

Going back to the spirit of the original post I think to rely solely on electricity for home energy supply is perhaps a mistake and will increase the vulnerability of supply shocks/outages caused by economic/political/terrorism/grid hacking reasons. Who is to say that new synthetic, perhaps carbon neutral even hydrogen, gas does not become available as a means of leveling out fluctuations in renewable electricity production even if the synthetic gas is still imported. That way the existing natural gas network can still be used for 'energy distribution'.

Also don't brick up those fireplaces just yet. You may yet need them. One event in my life that set me on this path to joining this forum was an electricity outage in our village in Nottinghamshire for nine days over a Christmas break from university. As we had a Rayburn for cooking, heating and hotwater and a 12 volt caravan TV we were arguably the best prepared people in the village (by a complete accident) and after a few days only the lack of refrigeration had any change on our daily life.

[vtsnowedin]

I would think they would be looking at all the coal and heating oil uses that exist first and leave the natural gas for a few years down the road. Of course promoting electric cooking as fashionable and better will renovate more (cooking rooms) better and faster then a mandate.

[adam2]

The proposal only applies to newly built homes, not to existing structures.

Coal is almost never considered as the main heat source for a new home.
Oil is already becoming less popular for new homes.

Gas central heating is however the default choice for almost all new homes. It is proposed that new homes should not be connected to the gas mains. but that they should be all electric.

It is not suggested that a typical 20+Kw gas boiler should be replaced with 20Kw of electric heat. The suggestion is that new homes should be so well insulated that a very modest electrical loading would suffice.
Once the heating demand is down to a few Kw, then electricity becomes cheaper than gas.

If gas is not used for heating, then the economics of providing gas just for cooking become very doubtful indeed and electric cooking would be the norm.
Tighter safety standards for gas cooking will make it a lot more expensive, and encourage the shift towards electricity.

Taking the wider view, I can see the merit of these proposals. 4 Kw of electricity, over half of which is produced renewably, is clearly preferable to 20Kw of 100% fossil gas.

However from a personal perspective, going 100% electric is a backward step as regards resilience and being prepared for out of course events.
OTOH, gas central heating is almost always 100% reliant on mains electricity in any case.
And the days of gas cookers that work without mains electricity are numbered in any case.

[fuzzy]

I see it as pointless having gas without a freestanding gas fire or balanced flue wall heater for backup. Get one while they still exist.

[clv101]

It's a good idea. Build houses very well to get heat demand down to a few kW then use heat pumps (more kW of heat into house than the electricity they use), cooking is pretty trivial next to space & water heating, and induction hobs are better than gas.

Striking thing is that it's totally affordable. It only costs around £5k extra for a new build to be built to Passivhous, which is similar to the £75m bonus Persimmon's boss took for building around 16,000 houses.

Reduces national reliance on imported gas.

Yes, puts all eggs in (electric) basket, but we've kinda done that already - no new build's gas heating system works without electric pump, controllers etc.

[adam2]

And of course if a house is so well insulated as to need only a few Kw to heat it, then it should stay comfortably warm during 3 hour rota power cuts, and tolerable for at least 24 hours.

[fuzzy]

It's a good idea. Build houses very well to get heat demand down to a few kW then use heat pumps (more kW of heat into house than the electricity they use), cooking is pretty trivial next to space & water heating, and induction hobs are better than gas.

Striking thing is that it's totally affordable. It only costs around £5k extra for a new build to be built to Passivhous, which is similar to the £75m bonus Persimmon's boss took for building around 16,000 houses.

Reduces national reliance on imported gas.

Yes, puts all eggs in (electric) basket, but we've kinda done that already - no new build's gas heating system works without electric pump, controllers etc.

I doubt it's just the material cost. A house needs sun hitting a wall unblocked. It needs thicker walls for insulation. Draughtproofing is pointless if people don't have somewhere to dry washing in our humid climate - presumably tumble driers are verboten? All of this takes space and circulation that our mock georgian shoebox builders will not want lowering profits.

[adam2]

A well insulated house would need very little heating.

Laundry may be dried in several ways at modest energy cost.

1) use a clothes horse or similar and an electric dehumidifier to avoid damp, the running cost is modest and the heat from the dehumidifier reduces the already modest need for other heating.

2) As above, but in a home equipped with MVHR, whereby the humid air from drying of laundry is extracted and the warmth therein heats the incoming fresh air.

3) Use a heat pump tumble dryer, these are relatively new on the market, and rather expensive but they dry laundry at a reduced energy cost and add no moisture to the air.
The heat that they produce reduces the already modest need for other heating.

Outdoor drying of washing is of course preferable when weather permits.

[clv101]

A well insulated house would need very little heating.

Check, according to our SAP/EPC we need around 2kW to maintain a 20 degree delta. Experience shows this to be the right ballpark.

Laundry may be dried in several ways at modest energy cost.

1) use a clothes horse or similar and an electric dehumidifier to avoid damp, the running cost is modest and the heat from the dehumidifier reduces the already modest need for other heating.

Check, we use a electric dehumidifier (primerially for drying plaster during the build, but it's also great for laundry). Note there are two types, and in anything other than really warm environments you want the desiccant type not the refrigerant type.

2) As above, but in a home equipped with MVHR, whereby the humid air from drying of laundry is extracted and the warmth therein heats the incoming fresh air.

Check, we have a single room, heat recovery MVHR in the bathroom.

Outdoor drying of washing is of course preferable when weather permits.

Indeed, outdoor drying is the first choice - and even when raining we can dry in the poly tunnel or under a covered verandah... unless it's cold and ~100% humidity!

[fuzzy]

People who live in a rural house and then commute to their well paid job or spend their pensions in retirement are deliberately avoiding the reality of housebuilding for the majority in the UK.

Try a drive around Telford, Shrewsbury, North Tyneside and 100s of other nowhere places.

[vtsnowedin]

People who live in a rural house and then commute to their well paid job or spend their pensions in retirement are deliberately avoiding the reality of housebuilding for the majority in the UK.

Try a drive around Telford, Shrewsbury, North Tyneside and 100s of other nowhere places.

First I'd split the group in two and tell the commuters to move in closer . Then realize that the retirees that have moved to the countryside to escape the rat race they have endured for years feel no more need to waste energy then the wisest of members here. A well designed and built cottage or country house will be much more comfortable (and economical) then some drafty old pile of stone.

[kenneal - lagger]

I've been off line for 48 hours after my dog chewed through the internet cable under my desk so most of the sensible comments have been made already about heating and moist air control.

We've got a shower room with underfloor heating and passive stack ventilation so that takes care of most of our winter drying. The polytunnel is a bit far away to persuade my wife to use that although my daughter uses it for drying tents and canoeing equipment.

The are two problems with getting well insulated houses built in the UK is the desire of the building industry in the UK to protect its profit margins by not building houses to anything other than the basic building regulations standard and their hold on government telling them not to increase the standard to protect that profit margin. The other problem in the individual house market is the desire of the average British person to maximise their "investment" in a new home so that they will chose to build a house with an extra bedroom rather than spend that money on extra insulation of a slightly smaller house.

I have developed a few strategies over the years to get around this mental defect such as not telling them that the house that I am designing is well above the basic building regs spec. The problem comes then in ensuring the the builder builds to the spec as he will tell the client that the extra insulation isn't needed. The usual get out here is to tell the client that there is a reason that I design houses and the builder only builds them and that is that the builder hasn't been to school since he started building and I have (or some such thing putting the builder in his place).

[raspberry-blower]

Striking thing is that it's totally affordable. It only costs around £5k extra for a new build to be built to Passivhous, which is similar to the £75m bonus Persimmon's boss took for building around 16,000 houses.

Talking of the devil, did anyone else see this?

The big "house builders" - I use the term loosely as, quite frankly, they should be sued under the Trade Descriptions Act - lobbied hard to water down the Zero Carbon Homes that was supposed to be in force from 2015.

I wonder just how many "home owners" who bought under the HTB (Help to Bankrupt yourself) scheme will find the payments untenable after the 5 year period of relief ends?

[vtsnowedin]

Striking thing is that it's totally affordable. It only costs around £5k extra for a new build to be built to Passivhous,

Which on a thirty year mortgage will cost the owner £10k with the interest. The question then becomes how much energy cost is saved by the standard to achieve a break even point. It depends of course on the future cost of fuel or electricity over the next thirty years so any number of estimates are possible. Anyone have a plausible study at hand with some figures?