Urban myths re electricity/fuel/energy/power.

Post by **adam2** » 11 Jun 2008, 13:11

A new myth!

There are now many competing retailers of electricity, and it is widely believed that obtaining supplies from two or more competing firms will give protection against power cuts!

My local shop has two meters, one for the shop and one for the flat above, the owner has "wisely" ensured that he uses EDF for one and NPOWER for the other because "they wont both fail or be cut off together"

He doesent believe me that it wont help!

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 11 Jun 2008, 13:23

adam2 wrote:A new myth!

There are now many competing retailers of electricity, and it is widely believed that obtaining supplies from two or more competing firms will give protection against power cuts!

My local shop has two meters, one for the shop and one for the flat above, the owner has "wisely" ensured that he uses EDF for one and NPOWER for the other because "they wont both fail or be cut off together"

He doesent believe me that it wont help!

Oh dear oh dear . . . someone is going to be disappointed!

Still, the fact that people are even considering the question speaks volumes doesn't it.

Post by **clv101** » 11 Jun 2008, 13:27

adam2 wrote:The position as regards HGVs is different, and I can forsee coal burning steam driven trucks making a return to our roads as oil becomes too costly.

Surely converting the coal to liquid or gas and using an internal combustion engine would be more efficient - or using the coal for electricity to power trolley busses would be better. I really doubt we'll see any significant return to steam engines.

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 11 Jun 2008, 13:39

clv101 wrote: Surely converting the coal to liquid or gas and using an internal combustion engine would be more efficient - or using the coal for electricity to power trolley busses would be better. I really doubt we'll see any significant return to steam engines.

That depends how far and fast the energy decline is. Both coal to liquids and trolly bus systems are large, expensive to set up centralised services.

If we need to adapt fast to drastically reduced oil and gas, it might be easier to start small, with small numbers of low tech steam lorries, just as it is quicker to build on-shore wind turbines than nuclear power stations.

Post by **adam2** » 11 Jun 2008, 13:53

clv101 wrote:
adam2 wrote:The position as regards HGVs is different, and I can forsee coal burning steam driven trucks making a return to our roads as oil becomes too costly.
Surely converting the coal to liquid or gas and using an internal combustion engine would be more efficient - or using the coal for electricity to power trolley busses would be better. I really doubt we'll see any significant return to steam engines.

Converting coal to a gas or liquid fuel might be more efficient, but requires considerable plant and equipment, certainly not something that a small haulage firm would consider doing themselves.
Therefore the fuel would have to be purchased, just as crude oil derived diesel is purchased now, the haulage firm would still be at risk of shortages, " sorry mate no synthetic diesel for you this week, we need it all for the fire brigade"
Coal however is still in plentiful supply and is easily stored against shortages.

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 11 Jun 2008, 18:20

Speaking of coal, here's one I heard recently down the pub...

"We can re-open all the mines that were closed in the 80's when they were uneconomical to keep going."

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 11 Jun 2008, 20:11

mikepepler wrote: And one of my own - many people seem to think that you can generate energy by fixing wind turbines onto cars (or something similar), so they generate as they drive around...

Isnt that right? When I was a kid I used to go dinghy sailing with a couple of friends. When there wasnt much wind we'd all blow into the mainsail... I'd swear it works.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 11 Jun 2008, 22:56

syberberg wrote:Speaking of coal, here's one I heard recently down the pub...

"We can re-open all the mines that were closed in the 80's when they were uneconomical to keep going."

Closely related to, "Maggie did us a favour when she closed down the mines - she was saving the coal until we really needed it"

Post by **mikepepler** » 12 Jun 2008, 07:47

Well I read a letter in the FT yesterday, where the author had overheard two very chic ladies talking beside the SUV that one of them owned. One was saying "I don't know what all the fuss is about. How can it be so bad for the environment, it has climate control"

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 13 Jun 2008, 01:02

In case of sudden collapse I see the horse taking over again. The manufacturing costs are lower.j ':D'

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 13 Jun 2008, 12:25

mikepepler wrote:Well I read a letter in the FT yesterday, where the author had overheard two very chic ladies talking beside the SUV that one of them owned. One was saying "I don't know what all the fuss is about. How can it be so bad for the environment, it has climate control"

Awesome . . .

Miss Madam · Post by **Miss Madam** » 13 Jun 2008, 19:40

Gah... climate control.... gah.... sometimes I really do think that the electorate should be ranked by intelligence test into those allowed to vote for politicians and those whose intelligence precludes them from participating in any form of vote other than big brother, richard and judy and 'feckwits have talent'

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 14 Jun 2008, 04:54

Miss Madam wrote:Gah... climate control.... gah.... sometimes I really do think that the electorate should be ranked by intelligence test into those allowed to vote for politicians and those whose intelligence precludes them from participating in any form of vote other than big brother, richard and judy and 'feckwits have talent'

':D' ':D' ':D' ':D'

Miss Madam · Post by **Miss Madam** » 17 Jun 2008, 12:07

Just heard a corker on Channel 4 news' coverage of inflation, a vox pop middle aged Kent lady - noting fuel price rises with the wonderful line of 'You don't get far on a tank of petrol these days' - errr, no love, it costs you more to fill up your tank, and more to do the same mileage, but the fuel efficiency of the petrol itself isn't affected by price rises. D'oh! Consign her to the 'Only allowed to vote on extortionate phone votes linked to TV pile' and remove her forthwith from the electoral role as a result of innate congenital stupidity....

energy-village · Post by **energy-village** » 17 Jun 2008, 13:00

syberberg wrote:Speaking of coal, here's one I heard recently down the pub...

"We can re-open all the mines that were closed in the 80's when they were uneconomical to keep going."

I don't know about "closed in the 80's" but, near where my girlfriend lives in Little Hulton, they stopped extracting coal around 1970 and they've now started up again.

The Ashton Fields site has a long history of minor coal and chemical workings. Coal extraction ceased on site in 1929, although the site retained a pumping function until 1968. The recovery of low-grade coal from tipped waste continued until about 1970.

Rob Pearson, Head of National Programmes for English Partnerships, said: "We are delighted that work is now able to start after the former colliery site has lain derelict for so long.

I thought Little Hulton couldn't get any uglier but open cast mining and heavily laiden trucks haven't exactly prettified the place.