Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

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adam2
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Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by adam2 »

The french have threatened to cut of the electricity supply to Jersey, as part of ongoing fishing disputes.

Jersey is very reliant on power imports from France. There is AFAIK some limited on-island generating capacity, but I can not find any recent data on this
Maximum demand of the island of Jersey
Average demand.
On island generating capacity.
Contingency plans for load shedding.
Contingency plans for extra generation, diesel or other.

There is a waste to energy plant which will help a bit.
There is a fair bit of PV capacity, which will help, but ONLY WITH A CORRECTLY FUNCTIONING GRID SYSTEM TO FEED INTO. AFAIK all the PV capacity uses standard grid tied inverters that cant feed into a dead grid system, nor even into a grid system with voltage or frequency outside of normal limits.

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BritDownUnder
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by BritDownUnder »

I would be interested to know if it is just Jersey or all of the channel islands. To me it seems they could get more power from solar and other forms of generation as well and this may be the impetus. I would guess that there is very little heavy industry so power consumption is probably a bit less than for the UK along with the average warmer weather. Assuming 50kWh electricity consumption per person per day and 100,000 inhabitants that makes a demand of about 200MW on average. 8 GE TM2500 gas turbine units running on diesel could supply that and they could probably fit at the port. You can get four in a 100m x 50m area about.

I would suggest calling the Frog's bluff as other forms of generation could be obtained with reasonable speed, e.g. diesel powered gas turbines. They are also inveterate cowards. I would also suggest publicizing the power cut off threats as France is a big supplier to other countries as well and they may begin to get a bad reputation. Perhaps the UK could also cut off power imports from France if Jersey is cut off and cut other French exports off as well. From what I hear, the EU is already implementing a sort of "Continental System" for the UK. (Adam: You can cut this if you want but I just couldn't resist myself).

Going against Jersey it seems a very densely populated place so there may be less room for solar arrays and the like. I don't know much about the place but I expect it is full of NIMBYs and retired army officer type classes who oppose any development and probably think wind turbines are satanic, or maybe I watched too much Bergerac when it was on. Long term and for energy security they would probably be better off building their own power station and battery system. Perhaps a floating nuclear station or floating coal power station, ha ha ha.
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by Potemkin Villager »

BritDownUnder wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 7:42 am
Perhaps the UK could also cut off power imports from France if Jersey is cut off .........
Yes that would really hurt the Frogs! A very brave decision Prime Minister as Sir Humphrey would say.

I think HMGs concern is less for the general public living on Jersey and more that the computers in the
off shore money laundering operations continue functioning....
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by Catweazle »

Potemkin Villager wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:21 am I think HMGs concern is less for the general public living on Jersey and more that the computers in the
off shore money laundering operations continue functioning....
Good shot Sir !
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by kenneal - lagger »

I would have thought that the Channel Islands are ideally placed for wind turbines with all that wind funnelling up the Channel. A few extra turbines and they could offer Green electricity to France in case Flamanville doesn't come on line.
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

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Potemkin Villager wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:21 am.... more that the computers in the
off shore money laundering operations continue functioning....
I suspect those computers will have the best in UPS and emergency backup diesel generation technology that well laundered money can buy.

I think they are probably reasonably windy as well but remember that wind power is subject to extreme NIMBY opinions. Perhaps some offshore technology could be applied as the place looks choc a bloc with people. Maybe the waters offshore are shallow enough for such things. I have no idea if the Jersey government has the money to do this or indeed who it is that pays.
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by adam2 »

It should be noted that connection of standard types of wind turbines or grid tie solar inverters to the Jersey grid wont help much if the electricity imports were to cease.
Whilst times are normal, grid tied wind and solar would work just fine and reduce the need for other sources, just as happens elsewhere. The grid connected inverters rely on a functioning grid system.

For example, a total demand of 200 Mw with imports of 198 Mw and 2 Mw of grid tied inverters will work fine.

A total demand of 200 Mw with zero imports, on island production of 198 Mw from conventional rotating alternators, and 2 Mw of grid tie inverters will work fine.

A total demand of 200 Mw with zero imports, 100 Mw from rotating alternators, and 100 Mw from grid tie inverters, MIGHT work, but instability would be a real risk.

A total demand of 200 Mw with the only supply being 200 Mw of grid tie inverters wont work.

Neither will 20 Mw of grid tie inverters work even if you shed 90% of the load.
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by kenneal - lagger »

How about 20MW of diesel generators with 300MW of wind and some storage?
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Re: Threat to electricity supply, Jersey.

Post by BritDownUnder »

I found on wikipedia some information about the Jersey Electricity Company. There is a power station of about 70MW capacity at a place called La Collette.

I had to laugh when I saw the following quote...
Today, La Collette is the controlling hub of a transmission network that includes three multi-million-pound undersea supply cables that import 95% as low-carbon power from France.[2] Its generating plant is maintained for emergency back-up only as Jersey now benefits from an almost completely secure, decarbonised electricity supply.
Secure?

With regard to moving to a renewable based generation system the problems are twofold.

One, the supply from renewables is not despatchable, i.e. the output cannot be controlled but is simply what is available by the prevailing wind or sun conditions at the time. This can partly be supplemented by various forms of storage like a battery or pumped storage.

Two, the supply from renewables is generally not from synchronous rotating mechanical generators but from semiconductor based solid state inverters. These have problems in that they usually need a 'reference' voltage from the grid (to send power into the grid) this voltage reference would traditionally be provided by synchronous mechanical generators. These inverters also have problems in providing sufficient voltage stability in the event of short circuits or lightning strikes or other grid disruptions such as a large load suddenly being turned on. From what I understand there are ways around this too by having so called 'grid forming inverters' that can send power into a blacked out grid and also by having 'synchronous condensers' which are basically large generators connected to the grid 'freewheeling' providing voltage control and rotational inertia to the grid. I am supposed to be going to work on one of these next week and I may tell you all about it later in another post.

I suspect that if the Jersey government really wants energy independence then they will have to pay for it. I don't know about the finances of the place but I would imagine with such low rates of income tax in order to attract foreign money they are probably fairly cash-strapped.
Unfortunately, the UK and Jersey are entering a brave new world where foreigners don't play to the rules of cricket and after you have stopped paying them 3 billion pounds a year to be in their little economic club they can be downright nasty little b##tards.
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