Heat watch

For threads primarily discussing Climate Change (particularly in relation to Peak Oil)

Moderator: Peak Moderation

User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2554
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Heat watch

Post by Mark »

Climate change: UK cities told to prepare for wildfires:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62253581
South Wales Fire Service is seen as leading the way in its approach to wildfires. Its station manager, Craig Hope, is another of the UK's wildfire tactical advisers. His force keeps specialised lightweight kit, off-road vehicles, a controlled burns team and a helicopter on standby. However, 5,500 hectares of the Brecon Beacons National Park have already burned in wildfires this year. "It's horrific, but we have predicted it," he said. "I just don't think anyone would have predicted that it would happen so soon."

He added that years have been spent "making little steps" and that now is the time for "big strides, because the climate is not on our side". "The fires we are seeing now are what they were getting in Spain in the 80s and 90s." He urges authorities to invest more in developing a UK-wide "national plan for wildfire". One solution Mr Hope proposes is that, rather than each force individually spending money on improving its response, there should be funding for a deployable central specialised unit. Mr Hope added: "The solutions are there. They are complex, but we all need to work together. "By doing nothing, we risk losing everything."

The BBC went to the Malvern Hills to see the kind of expertise being developed by rural fire crews working alongside landowners. Duncan Bridges, chief executive for the Malvern Hills Trust, works with the Hereford and Worcester Fire Service to map where the local access points are, and to understand how wind and fire are likely to travel through a landscape. As part of the trust's wildlife management, the keepers also help to reduce the amount of combustible vegetation, by rolling back bracken and allowing livestock to graze the grass.

Mr Bridges says climate change means the prevention of wildfires is going to become "increasingly more critical". "There doesn't seem to be any systematic approach across the whole country when it comes to dealing with landowners and land managers," he says. "When dealing with fire prevention and fire safety, it's more a case of each one doing it their own way."

Defra has included wildfire in its national climate adaptation plan, and the Home Office pointed out a plan for England it had published last December outlined plans for "close co-ordination... to provide an effective response to wildfire incidents." It added: "The government is committed to ensuring fire services have the resources they need to keep us safe, including from wildfires, and, overall, fire and rescue authorities will receive £2.5bn in 2022/23.
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 14287
Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Re: Heat watch

Post by kenneal - lagger »

One solution Mr Hope proposes is that, rather than each force individually spending money on improving its response, there should be funding for a deployable central specialised unit.
This chimes with what Adam was saying about a civil defence unit. Training them in multiple roles including flood rescue work would make a better use of the resource than having a unit only trained for wildfires sitting on its backside over winter.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2554
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Heat watch

Post by Mark »

It makes perfect sense to all of us here - that doesn't mean that it will happen though....
Doubt that TPTB (or many others) read this Forum...
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2554
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Heat watch

Post by Mark »

Heard that the heat wave caused all Tesco's & Morrisons' fridges & freezers in a town near me to fail - causing all refrigerated and frozen goods in both shops to be dumped....

From a quick 'google', looks like this was repeated in quite a few other places across the country.....

Supermarkets forced to empty shelves as heatwave causes chillers to breakdown:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 27551.html
Fridges at Manchester supermarket which failed during heatwave still out of action:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... g-24555762

Assume there's something that can be done to adjust/retrofit refrigeration equipment ?
Another expensive 'prep' the UK needs to do for higher temperatures.....
User avatar
PS_RalphW
Posts: 6974
Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
Location: Cambridge

Re: Heat watch

Post by PS_RalphW »

Happened at a giant Tescos near me. Must have been at least hundreds of thousands of waste food at this one store alone. The safety cutout on our oil boiler supply tripped, it is set at 40C and is designed to cut off the fuel supply on the event of a fire in the oil boiler or house.
User avatar
adam2
Site Admin
Posts: 11001
Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis

Re: Heat watch

Post by adam2 »

The losses of chilled supermarket foods is rather concerning. The scale of some failures suggests to me some "value engineering" Individual self contained chiller cabinets, would with a bit of luck have coped with the conditions, it was after all not exceptionally hot INDOORS.

However such units find little favour in large stores, the individual air cooled condensers need regular cleaning and add an extra point of failure, and the heat is rejected into the surrounding air. This adds to the air conditioning demand.

Two alternatives exist, and are popular in large stores.
Option one; Each chiller cabinet has its own compressor, but these are water cooled. The water takes away the heat to a remote cooling tower or dry cooler. This can work very well but any failure of the cooling water will have hugely expensive consequences.
At the MINIMUM the cooling water pumps should be duplicated, as should be the cooling towers or dry coolers. I would consider an override switch in case of failure, that allows an apparently defective electric motor to run to destruction if all else fails. Better to risk a £500 electric motor than £10,000 of food stock.
The whole installation should operate reliably in an air temperature of at least 50 degrees.

Option two; A significant number of adjacent chiller cabinets use the same remote compressor, placed outdoors. This also removes the heat entirely from the premises. No water to leak, or freeze, or need treating. Any failure of the compressor will disable a significant number of cabinets, but this should be manageable, by relocating stock, and perhaps by disposing of limited volumes of low value items. Should also be designed to work reliably at an air temperature of at least 50 degrees.

The scale of the reported failures suggest poor design, poor maintenance, or even misuse. Common problems include;
Adding extra chiller cabinets to an existing water cooling system without any checks as to adequacy.
Failing to promptly replace defective fans or circulating pumps, "it works OK on only one"
Replacing a chiller cabinet with a freezer, that adds more heat into the cooling water system.
Staff using the loading bay or other area as a mess room or smoking area and interfering with equipment therein.
Adding more and more dry coolers or remote compressors to say a loading bay, until the heat reaches intolerable levels.
Adding more refrigeration equipment of any type to existing electrical infrastructure without checking the adequacy thereof. Or related, making unduly optimistic assumptions about diversity.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
User avatar
Mark
Posts: 2554
Joined: 13 Dec 2007, 08:48
Location: NW England

Re: Heat watch

Post by Mark »

The problem was definitely widespread - looks like many stores - maybe into the 100s ?
The product lost must run into many £millions - all dumped....

Sainsbury's fridges and freezers 'meltdown' in heatwave:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... e-24525017
Supermarkets lose their cool in Lincolnshire heatwave:
https://thelincolnite.co.uk/2022/07/sup ... -heatwave/

The problem is known to have occurred at at Tesco, ALDI, Sainsbury's, Morrisons, so it's an industry issue, rather than down to the kit/installation at 1 company. This doesn't seem to happen in Spain, Australia etc., so there are probably lessons to be learnt from there ?

As Adam2 says, there are plenty of areas to investigate.
Option 1 - Cooling Towers sound a bit OTT and expensive - they also add the potential for legionella risk, which would need to be managed
Option 2 - sounds OK in summer, but would make the store cold in winter ? I was thinking that there might be potential to take the heat from just the hotter areas of the store, eg the instore bakery, or the kitchen ?
User avatar
adam2
Site Admin
Posts: 11001
Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis

Re: Heat watch

Post by adam2 »

Cooling towers are now less popular due to the risks of Legionaires disease. This may change since cooling towers are generally more efficient, a cooling tower will cool the water to several degrees below the outside air temperature. A dry cooler will always leave the water at least a little warmer than the air.

A remote compressor for an array of chiller cabinets will remove the heat from the premises, reducing the summer air conditioning load, but a drawback in cold weather as fuel may be burnt for space heating, whilst elsewhere in the premises the heat from the remote compressors is being dumped to the outside air.

If each refrigeration unit has its own water cooled compressor then the heat is removed from the premises in the summer, but may be re-used in the winter. All large supermarkets have one or more central AHUs, or air handling units that take fresh outside air, filter it to remove dust and pollen, and then heat or cool it as needed. Some designs use a mixture of fresh outside air, and recirculated indoor air as this can reduce the heating or cooling demand.
The most sophisticated systems even measure the carbon dioxide concentration in the indoor air, and adjust the percentage of fresh air and recirculated as needed.
The warm water from the all the water cooled compressors can be passed through a coil in the AHU and may supply the ENTIRE winter heating demand.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
User avatar
adam2
Site Admin
Posts: 11001
Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis

Re: Heat watch

Post by adam2 »

The hot and dry conditions in France are becoming increasingly serious, with some districts running so short of water that it is being delivered by tanker.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62436468
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 14287
Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Re: Heat watch

Post by kenneal - lagger »

I have dug a pool in the bed of our stream to enable the cattle to drink easier and for me to pump water into IBC to put on the garden. I am going to have to feed my cattle again soon as they are scraping the barrel in the damper parts of the fields now.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
User avatar
Potemkin Villager
Posts: 1989
Joined: 14 Mar 2006, 10:58
Location: Narnia

Re: Heat watch

Post by Potemkin Villager »

It seems that cyber-attacks are not the only cause of critical computer systems failing!

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... SApp_Other


" Two of the UK’s leading hospitals have had to cancel operations, postpone appointments and divert seriously ill patients to other centres for the past three weeks after their computers crashed at the height of last month’s heatwave."

and, although the article does not make it clear if the problem is with overheating on site
or at cloud computing facilities :-

" However, the constant growth of data centres also means that they are playing a part in the heating of the planet. “By 2030, it is predicted that data centres across the globe will consume the same amount of power as the whole of Europe does today"
Overconfidence, not just expert overconfidence but general overconfidence,
is one of the most common illusions we experience. Stan Robinson
User avatar
Catweazle
Posts: 3391
Joined: 17 Feb 2008, 12:04
Location: Petite Bourgeois, over the hills

Re: Heat watch

Post by Catweazle »

A mile up the road from here there are 4 tanker lorries connected to the water mains. My guess is that they are unloading. I knew it was dry, but that's surprised me.
User avatar
adam2
Site Admin
Posts: 11001
Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis

Re: Heat watch

Post by adam2 »

Catweazle wrote: 09 Aug 2022, 15:06 A mile up the road from here there are 4 tanker lorries connected to the water mains. My guess is that they are unloading. I knew it was dry, but that's surprised me.
Unless water is very short in your area, it is in my view more likely that the water tankers were being filled for use elsewhere.
Possibly for firefighting, or general consumption.

Most fire brigades have available water tankers in case of fire in places with a limited water supply. They also have arrangements to hire other tankers.

When water tankers are used to supplement the existing mains water supply it is usual to discharge the tankers into existing reservoirs. Pumping from a tanker directly into the water mains is not the norm.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
User avatar
adam2
Site Admin
Posts: 11001
Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis

Re: Heat watch

Post by adam2 »

Latest UK heat alert, not as severe as the last one, but expected to persist for longer.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62472926

And in other news, the source of the Thames has dried up, and several miles of the upper reaches are completely dry.

The heat and drought in mainland Europe are looking increasingly serious.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
kenneal - lagger
Site Admin
Posts: 14287
Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
Contact:

Re: Heat watch

Post by kenneal - lagger »

It was said a week or so ago that Thames Water were unlikely to introduce a hosepipe ban but that has now changed and they are looking a bringing one in in a couple of weeks. Hopefully the forecast rain will come next week and that won't be necessary.
If the source of the Thames has dried up in means that the underground water level has dropped significantly through the pumping exceeding the rainfall over a considerable length of time. That is what has happened so it is no surprise really. Rainfall has been effectively zero for a couple of months and the demand has probably increased.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
Post Reply