Planned Somerset nuclear plant on hold ? or not ?

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Apr 2016, 10:32

"about September"

Doesn't say which September.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 27 Apr 2016, 13:40

True! Very true! Like it.

alex · Post by **alex** » 27 Apr 2016, 20:04

woodburner wrote:I have a Peugeot 405 - 1966 and a van - 1968. Not much rust on either, and still used every day. Not many makes (particularly vans) you can say that of.

Vans were brilliant. I had a fleet of them, replaced three with Ford Connect which were expensive to run, back to Peugeot.

The 407 car I had was dreadful, Nikolas Sarkozy hand-built mine personally. Turning circle of a container ship, multi-storey car-parks were no go areas. Problems with electrics, warning lights all over the place for no apparent reason. To change the time on the clock needed Bill Gates. No blind spot facility on overtaking mirrors Outrageous fuel "economy" of less than 30mpg (2L Diesel Auto) Traded in for a Saab with 42.3 mpg, then 2.2 diesel Mazda CX-5 Auto 42.8mpg.

alex · Post by **alex** » 27 Apr 2016, 20:19

Back to the subject matter.

The May 11th Meeting was going to be the tenth time they were to make the decision. Now September, does that make it eleven, not sure?

The project is in trouble and the departure of a senior figure followed by another delay is an irritating nail in the Électricité de France coffin? They have no money, and are looking for financial support from wherever they can get it. China has come in with an investment of about 30% but they need more stakeholders.

EdeF could go to the French Government – they are around 85% owned by the state – but might not be able to get support. It is rather like Centrica (Brit Gas) trying to build the world’s largest project in France, then it looks like is doomed, so they ask us the British taxpayer to cover their risk and we are to bail them out for the mistakes as made in another country, and we wouldn’t even see any benefit.

Perversely I’m not anti Hinkley, but I am anti Électricité de France and the way they have acted towards us in the area. They seem to think we are simple country folk!

I grew up in the Electricity Supply industry and when HPC was first mooted I was up for it. Opportunities for young people, along with skills training, full employment and above all prosperity and growth in the area. However seeing the machinations and spin along with the ineptitude I have refreshed my thoughts.

There has been tinkering with the road network, and put Bridgwater at a standstill for months and the “improvements” are not apparent. Then there was the time effort and money spent on fettling the infrastructure with projects such as the Washford Cross roundabout, as well as a by-pass around the back of Cannington which is undersubscribed, even by EdeF traffic. The Main Road in Cannington village has seen a drop of 4% in volume, but a speed increase of 6% due to fewer Lorries – I have figures to back this up. The bulk of the Hinkley traffic still goes through Cannington, and is evident when there is a shift change. Furthermore the roads in the village are being used an unofficial park-and-ride for workers at both plants.

The strike (Contract for Difference) price has come in at £92 per mw/hour against the previous average at the time of just over £40, being more than double the prevailing wholesale cost, and is inflation linked. Now thanks to wholesale prices falling, this disparity has been nicely jogging upwards and is encroaching three times the current price. Doesn’t need a lot of number crunching to see where that might be heading in years to come.

The flawed vessel they want to install, they may have to build/assemble the flask on site, as not easily transportable. There are concerns that the flagship site at Flamanville may have to have their vessel removed and to undergo tests as there are concerns regarding the integrity of the casting material. Plus there are documented issues re the valves. The project in Finland – using the same bit of equipment – is also undergoing tests and may be delayed even longer than the current one of over 10 years.

This flask (vessel) as produced by the bankrupt and almost defunct company Areva will probably be the last one ever produced, it has been an apparent failure before even being commissioned, and the order book is empty.

There is an appropriate acronym for this bit of equipment being FFS which means “Fit for Suitability.”

Then there is procurement where Électricité de France has kept local business on a string. Companies have held themselves in abeyance and are poised to go, and on a promise which thus far has been put off ten times with regards the “Final investment Decision” which they seem unable to commit upon.

There could be further indemnities with the waste and disposal obligations which could lead to significant public expenditure. Apparently the fuel when depleted will have to be vertically wet-stored in ponds on site for 100 years after decommissioning the plant; whereas the waste as produced by Hinkley B is transported to Cumbria. It seems the new generation waste will be too long to transport and therefore has to remain on site.

Renewables such as Solar/Wind is not the fix, but would certainly help and reduce demand at times, and yes I know the sun has to shine, and the wind to blow but being on a Feed-in-Tariff myself I see my demand from the grid has reduced, and every little helps. Battery technology is moving leaps and bounds. A mobile phone battery has gone from the size of a brick to the size of a biscuit in less than a generation.

I said in 2009 it will all end in tears, and to date nothing has made me think different. Further I will reiterate that we can still do the job ourselves. We may have lost the skills short term, but we have not lost the ability to innovate. Clearly there are a lot of people in governments both sides of the channel that will lose face if HPC fails to happen.

Alex.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Apr 2016, 20:38

alex wrote:
Perversely I’m not anti Hinkley,

Well, I'm so glad that you agree it is perverse to be not anti Hinkley.

And that's a good explanation, Alex.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 27 Apr 2016, 22:08

That a mobile phone battery has gone from the size of a brick to the size of a biscuit is not entirely relevant, nor is it entirely accurate. Electronics used to be voltage orientated and were power hungry, now it is mostly current orientated and is comparatively power frugal. Having siad that, with the demands of 3G and 4G, the power requirement is rocketing, and you can't go to London with a 4G phone without taking a backup battery if you want it to last all day. Mobile phones, say a decade ago, would often last several days on one charge. and the batteries were smaller then than now.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 04 May 2016, 08:42

France's ailing nuclear giant, Areva, faced a major scandal on Tuesday after the country’s nuclear watchdog confirmed there have been “irregularities” in 400 parts produced in its reactors since 1965, and that “around 50 are currently in service in France’s nuclear power plant fleet”.

France’s independent Nuclear Safety Authority, ASN, said the “irregularities” were listed in an audit it had ordered from Areva after it detected a “very serious anomaly" in a reactor vessel in the country’s Flamanville EPR nuclear plant, the same model Britain plans to use for two new plants at Hinkley Point.

The fault in the vessel destined to house the plant's nuclear fuel and confine its radioactivity was detected last year.

“These irregularities consist in incoherencies, modifications or omissions in manufacturing dossiers,” ASN said in a statement.

The revelation came hours after Areva’s director general admitted that 400 documents assessing whether parts of nuclear plants met required standards may have been "falsified”.

The doubts over documents supposed to rubber-stamp the quality of parts destined for new-generation nuclear power reactors will be a cause for serious concern for the British government as it is poised to finalise a controversial, multi-billion pound contract to build reactors at Hinkley Point designed by Areva.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... s-in-nucl/

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 08 May 2016, 17:12

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016 ... over-risks

Yet more problems

alex · Post by **alex** » 11 May 2016, 20:27

woodburner wrote:That a mobile phone battery has gone from the size of a brick to the size of a biscuit is not entirely relevant, nor is it entirely accurate. Electronics used to be voltage orientated and were power hungry, now it is mostly current orientated and is comparatively power frugal. Having siad that, with the demands of 3G and 4G, the power requirement is rocketing, and you can't go to London with a 4G phone without taking a backup battery if you want it to last all day. Mobile phones, say a decade ago, would often last several days on one charge. and the batteries were smaller then than now.

It was more of a generalisation. Example I'm a golfer and now using a Lithium battery to power the trolley. One third of the size of lead acid and nearly pulls my arm out of the socket.

The technology is on a continual upward graph.

Post by **clv101** » 11 May 2016, 22:46

alex wrote:The technology is on a continual upward graph.

Batteries are really chemistry, not technology. It's unsafe to infer improvements in batteries from observed improvements in technology.

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 11 May 2016, 23:53

More care is needed living with lithium batteries than with lead acid batteries. They also have a habit of dying earlier. As with many situations, advantages are often associated with some disadvantage(s).

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 12 May 2016, 02:44

I see two points of view here each championing one technology over the other.
Care to state a finish line that one could cross defeating the other?

woodburner · Post by **woodburner** » 12 May 2016, 06:23

vtsnowedin wrote:I see two points of view here each championing one technology over the other.
Care to state a finish line that one could cross defeating the other?

Care to state where any "championing" is going on?

Lithium has advantages, as do lead acid, as do silver oxide, as do NiMh and so on. They also have their disadvantages. In the case of lithium they have high power density, they can also take your house down, as some in the model car and model aircraft world have discovered. (Real aircraft have problems too).

http://youtu.be/y_mdOKvolg0

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 12 May 2016, 14:07

clv101 wrote: Batteries are really chemistry, not technology.

Hmmm, I'd have thought that what goes on inside a battery is chemistry but the process of harnessing the chemistry in a handy box with a couple of wires coming out is technology.

Anyway, we don't seems to have reached the buffers yet with whatever it is: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... next-tesla

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 12 May 2016, 15:04

One way, and the way that EVs have to go in the future, is making the cars much lighter using, say, carbon fibre bodies and suspension parts instead of steel. That would increase the range using current battery technology, well any battery technology, reduce the vehicle's carbon footprint and sequester some CO2 for the increased life of the vehicle.