PowerSwitch

Hi all,

I thought I would start a thread about a small, (maybe not so small) solar electric project that I would like to try and undertake. I am a total novice but I do have very basic skills. I don?t mind investing about ?500 to about ?1000 in this project over the next year or so, although the cheaper the better!

Here goes,

In one corner of my lounge I have the following items,

Plasma Screen Television.
This item is left on standby when not in use
(I think this item uses 350W when it?s switched on and 5W on Standby. These figures have been obtained from the back of the TV)

Sky + Box.
This item is always switched on and for some stupid reason we never put it into standby.
(Not got a clue what this uses)

Combined Video and DVD player.
This item is rarely used, and is not even plugged in.
(I think that this item uses 30W. This figure is from the rear of the unit)

AV amplifier
It is never left on standby and is switched off when not in use
(I think that this uses 240W when it is switched on. This figure is from the back of the machine)
The figure above has been obtained from the rear of the machine.


The television, sky box, and av amplifier are on for about 5 hours EVERY evening.
I would like to power some or all of them from a bank of batteries which are charged up by a solar panel (maybe even 2 , or maybe even more ).
I would like to add into the system a mains powered battery charger for when the sun don?t shine!

I am not going to tie the system into the grid. I don?t have the knowledge, qualifications or expertise!
I will simply run one lead into the house from the battery / ies and power the above mentioned items from a 4 or 5 way gang extension.

From what I have read on this forum, and elsewhere, I would need the following items. (starting from the sky and solar panels outside and working backwards to the TV etc inside.)


A south to south westerly facing rear garden / conservatory roof / house roof.
Got all of these?..luckily.
I am thinking of mounting the panels onto the conny roof. However this depends on the weight and number of panels that I eventually buy, and, wether or not the conny roof is strong enough. I am currently looking into this.

Solar Panel / s
(Seen some on ebay which work out at about ?3.50 per kw. Hmmmm?advice here please)

Charge controller
(Hmmmm?advice here please)

105ah Deep Cycle Battery / ies
(About fifty quid each from a local car spares shop, I am quite happy with this price?.unless you have any other ideas)

A mains powered battery charger
(I have read about an intelligent charger available from Halfords, although I can?t remember where I read the article

All the appropriate connecting cables
(where on earth?.........I have not got a clue here)

Waterproof cabinet for the battery / ies
Already got one from B & Q. Its one of those plastic garden storage units and is currently full of junk in the garden. It is totally waterproof though because all the junk is dry

Inverter
(Hmmmm?.advice here please)

Anything else????

As and when I buy bits of kit I will let you know.

I look forward to your comments and assistance. If no one has any objections I will also post this message on another ?green? forum.

Andy Hunt,
I don?t live far from you, just outside Bury in fact!

Cheers

poisondwarf wrote: Andy Hunt,
I don?t live far from you, just outside Bury in fact!

Just drop me a PM when you would like to come around, I will make you a cup of tea and show you my PV system and what it will/won't do!!

Just drop me a PM when you would like to come around, I will make you a cup of tea and show you my PV system and what it will/won't do!!

Cheers Andy, I have pm'd you the area in which I live and my reasons for not posting it publicly

I will most certainly take you up on that offer in the not too distant future.

I have had a good browse through your Green Cottage website many many times. It was perusing your site that got me to thinking.....I wonder if I could.........?

Anyway, I would love to know what your system will / won't do. It's the 'won't do' that worries me.

Thinking about what you have achieved using your system, is what I would like to achieve....... Feasable? / Just about feasable? / Not possible at all? / on my budget.

I am not wanting to power the whole house here, but I do realise that I would be powering some power hungry items albeit for a limited time of about 5 or 6 hours per night.

I am prepared to downscale my power requirements and possibly power just the tv. Or indeed power any combination from my list.

Your thoughts would be appreciated

My PV system won't do more than it will - if that makes any sense.

How it performs really depends on the way I use it, and of course what time of year it is and how much sun the panels are getting.

It's my first year of trying it out, and at the moment although the panels seem to be collecting a reasonable amount of electricity, it isn't enough to power everything we are using and so we have to recharge the batteries from the mains every 4 days or so. I expect the performance to get better as we get into the summer.

But I have been using a couple of desktop PCs and blasting my stereo out a bit recently as I've been at home off work. So I have been using more than I usually would.

How I use the electricity normally and how I would use it under a power cut scenario are two different things. If there was a power cut, there is quite a lot of stuff I would switch off immediately, to save power. Then the batteries would run essentials such as desk lamps, solar and central heating pumps, telephone etc for 2 or 3 days in the winter, and maybe indefinitely in the summer - I've yet to see, it being my first 12 months with it!!

I think you may be being a little optimistic with the stuff you are planning to run off it - when you see the size of my system, and what it will actually run, it will give you a bit more idea. But those plasma TVs are REALLY energy hungry . . .

Plus I think ?500 - ?1000 for a system may be very optimistic too . . . mine cost more like ?3000 all in, but you could probably get some bits cheaper.

Chat more when you come round!!

Hi,

Thanks for your comment Andy, they are much appreciated especially coming from someone who is already there!

My PV system won't do more than it will - if that makes any sense.

How it performs really depends on the way I use it, and of course what time of year it is and how much sun the panels are getting.

It's my first year of trying it out, and at the moment although the panels seem to be collecting a reasonable amount of electricity, it isn't enough to power everything we are using and so we have to recharge the batteries from the mains every 4 days or so. I expect the performance to get better as we get into the summer.

But I have been using a couple of desktop PCs and blasting my stereo out a bit recently as I've been at home off work. So I have been using more than I usually would.

How I use the electricity normally and how I would use it under a power cut scenario are two different things. If there was a power cut, there is quite a lot of stuff I would switch off immediately, to save power. Then the batteries would run essentials such as desk lamps, solar and central heating pumps, telephone etc for 2 or 3 days in the winter, and maybe indefinitely in the summer - I've yet to see, it being my first 12 months with it!!

I think you may be being a little optimistic with the stuff you are planning to run off it - when you see the size of my system, and what it will actually run, it will give you a bit more idea. But those plasma TVs are REALLY energy hungry . . .

Plus I think ?500 - ?1000 for a system may be very optimistic too . . . mine cost more like ?3000 all in, but you could probably get some bits cheaper.

Chat more when you come round!!

I have taken on board your comments and it certainly looks as though I will have to reduce my expectations.

An alternative, would be to greatly increase by budget, in order to gererate enough electricity, to power the items that I have already mentioned.
I dont mind taking this course of action but it will take time.

So I have decided to build a system that I can 'add to' over time.

In the first instance I will not look to power the tv, but I will look to power the rest of my list.

My battery bank will initially consist of 2 x 105ah deep discharge leisure/caravan batteries. Thats a total of 210ah and an initial spend of about ?100 to ?110.
(I have no objection to starting with a bank of 4 x 105ah batteries if that would be a better path to go down.)
Future additions to the battery bank would not be too difficult, or too expensive, and could be done at will.
Where on earth do you get all the connections to tie the batteries together, bearing in mind that I would like to add to the system over time?
The battery bank would be tied together in parrallel, not series.

From my research, the solar panels themselves are the most expensive part of my system and indeed the most critical!

Mono Crystalline panels seem to come out on top as compared with the other types, so I will look to purchase a mono crystalline panel with a view to buying another sometime next year.

I would assume, and please correct me if I am wrong here, that the higher the wattage then the more power the panel produces and as such my battery bank would be charged up quicker.
If I am correct then the higher the wattage panel that I purchase then the better.

I have found this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

and this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

What do you think? Is it possible to get cheaper monocrystalline panels?

Have I made the correct decision in deciding to go for mono crystalline panels in the first place? There are cheaper alternatives.

That's enough for now, my wife would like to go shopping to Manchester and doesn't want to go alone
(Nearly ?8 on the met, that equates to just under a 3W solar panel...bugger! )

I look forward to your comments

poisondwarf wrote: In the first instance I will not look to power the tv, but I will look to power the rest of my list.

My battery bank will initially consist of 2 x 105ah deep discharge leisure/caravan batteries. Thats a total of 210ah and an initial spend of about ?100 to ?110.
(I have no objection to starting with a bank of 4 x 105ah batteries if that would be a better path to go down.)
Future additions to the battery bank would not be too difficult, or too expensive, and could be done at will.
Where on earth do you get all the connections to tie the batteries together, bearing in mind that I would like to add to the system over time?
The battery bank would be tied together in parrallel, not series.

From my research, the solar panels themselves are the most expensive part of my system and indeed the most critical!

Mono Crystalline panels seem to come out on top as compared with the other types, so I will look to purchase a mono crystalline panel with a view to buying another sometime next year.

I would assume, and please correct me if I am wrong here, that the higher the wattage then the more power the panel produces and as such my battery bank would be charged up quicker.
If I am correct then the higher the wattage panel that I purchase then the better.

I have found this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

and this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

What do you think? Is it possible to get cheaper monocrystalline panels?

Have I made the correct decision in deciding to go for mono crystalline panels in the first place? There are cheaper alternatives.

That's enough for now, my wife would like to go shopping to Manchester and doesn't want to go alone
(Nearly ?8 on the met, that equates to just under a 3W solar panel...bugger! )

I look forward to your comments

I have 8x90Ah batteries for my reservoir, which lasts me 2 or 3 days running basic stuff with no input from the solar panels in winter. The company which supplied my inverter/charger, Powermaster, made up the battery connection leads for me, I had to supply the exact length measurements as they are very thick and don't flex easily.

Funnily enough, I was looking at those exact PV panels on ebay last night, as a possible addition to what I already have!

I currently have 330Wp of polycrystalline PV. It doesn't really matter whether you get poly or mono, it's the rated wattage that matters. That being said, monocrystalline panels are usually smaller for the same power output, so where physical space is important, mono would be better. That's why I'm looking at mono for an additional panel, I've run out of space on my back wall!

I will wait until the year is out before adding to my 330Wp though, just to see whether it is necessary for my application.

This may be a silly question... but why do you want all that stuff powered?

The first thing to do to reduce dependence is to cut demand, not to look at renewables. Is a 350W plasma TV, sky box, DVD player and amplifier really the most important collection of things you want to power?

I'm not saying you shouldn't watch films, just that there are other ways. We got rid of our TV and all associated equipment, and we now just watch DVDs on a large-screen laptop on a coffee table in front of the sofa. It only uses about 40W, and can be operated from my solar setup which cost under ?150.

Hi Mike

This may be a silly question... but why do you want all that stuff powered?

The first thing to do to reduce dependence is to cut demand, not to look at renewables. Is a 350W plasma TV, sky box, DVD player and amplifier really the most important collection of things you want to power?

I'm not saying you shouldn't watch films, just that there are other ways. We got rid of our TV and all associated equipment, and we now just watch DVDs on a large-screen laptop on a coffee table in front of the sofa. It only uses about 40W, and can be operated from my solar setup which cost under ?150.

No, it is not a silly question at all.

I would like to power all of that stuff because....well.....I want to.

The items that I have listed are simply just there, sat in one corner of my lounge. I bought them for my enjoyment. They are items that I use every night.

I do not choose to watch dvd s or tv on a large screen laptop.
There is no nothing wrong in you choosing to do just that, just as there is nothing wrong with me in choosing a different course.

I have already cut demand in my household, at great expense I would add.

Just about every lightbulb in my house is a low energy bulb, including the spotlights in my kitchen and the spotlights in a couple of the bedrooms. They ain't cheap, believe me!

Those bulbs that have not yet been switched to energysavng bulbs, are on dimmer switches, thus reducing power consumption.

We had a condensing boiler fitted in early 2005 and purposely purchased an 'A' rated washing machine in late 2006.
We also purchased a 'B' rated chest freezer in late 2006.
All of these items have cut our demand for power.

As well as all of the above, our local council insists that we recycle most waste.
We have three wheelie bins, one for normal waste, one for 'green' waste and one for all tins and glass bottles. We also have a bag for newspapers and a bag for clothes.

So, at least I have made a start, albeit a very small one at this stage, but probably more that most!

I just thought that I would try to do a bit more.

I have already said the following to Andy Hunt by way of a private message

I would tell you that I am coming at this from a hobby / moneysaving point of view rather than a saving the world viewpoint.

I do appreciate that moneysaving and investment in a solar pv system probably do not go hand in hand at the moment due to the high cost of solar panels but hey...I am prepared to give it a bit of a go.

You should see what we have in another corner of our lounge, I suppose I could have tried to power that little lot instead as it would be much easier and certainly cheaper, but I thought that I would go for the very hungry stuff first.

Have you ever had no sleep due to the long, hot, humid summer nights?
Not me!
If I can't power my television then I would assume that there is no chance at all of powering the air conditioning system I have in my main bedroom!
Another personal choice I'm afraid.

Cheers

Is there a book you can get about building your own solar set up?
Hopefully a book where measurements are in metric.

poisondwarf wrote:Hi Mike

No, it is not a silly question at all.

I would like to power all of that stuff because....well.....I want to.

That's fair enough, there's plenty of things I still do that will have to come to a halt before too long, like driving a car, for example, which I will probably keep doing for some time yet. Still, it used to be two inefficient cars in our household, now it's one efficient one, so there's been some progress

Us getting rid of our TV was a lifestyle choice too, rather than focusing on saving energy - that was just a beneficial side effect, as was the extra space and lack of a licence fee to pay.

I suppose it comes down to how far and fast you think a collapse might go. Some people on PowerSwitch are doing like you, trying to save a bit of energy, while others are getting ready to live pretty much off-grid. I'd say Tracy and I are in the middle - we still enjoy many modern conveniences, like a car, washing machine, computer, etc. but at the same time we've (nearly) bought a woodland, which we intend to start working in - it's a bit like a worst-case scenario insurance policy, but one that you can enjoy until you need to use it!

Hi all,

Hi Mike,

That's fair enough, there's plenty of things I still do that will have to come to a halt before too long, like driving a car, for example, which I will probably keep doing for some time yet. Still, it used to be two inefficient cars in our household, now it's one efficient one, so there's been some progress

Us getting rid of our TV was a lifestyle choice too, rather than focusing on saving energy - that was just a beneficial side effect, as was the extra space and lack of a licence fee to pay.

I suppose it comes down to how far and fast you think a collapse might go. Some people on PowerSwitch are doing like you, trying to save a bit of energy, while others are getting ready to live pretty much off-grid. I'd say Tracy and I are in the middle - we still enjoy many modern conveniences, like a car, washing machine, computer, etc. but at the same time we've (nearly) bought a woodland, which we intend to start working in - it's a bit like a worst-case scenario insurance policy, but one that you can enjoy until you need to use it!

I am aware that different people on here are trying to achieve different levels of 'off grid' independence.

I have been on Andy Hunt's website a good many times and each time I have a look I think to myself
"Bloody hell! I m jealous, I wish I could attain even a fraction of what he has done"
His set up really is something else.

As I have previously mentioned we had a condensing boiler fitted in early 2005. By fitting that item alone we saved a good deal of gas.
So much so in fact, that BG (our supplier at that time, not our current supplier!) decided to fit a new meter.
I am certain that they fitted a new meter because our consumption of gas dropped substantially although they did deny this at the time. They did not however replace any of my neighbours meters at that time, and indeed they have not done so to date.

I have tried to talk my wife into swapping the gas fire in our lounge, which is one of those living flame, gas hungry buggers, to a wood burning stove. She loves having the fire on at night time because "it looks nice"

Can you guess what her reply was?

Not very favourable is an understatement, a very big understatement in fact!
"The mess, the cleaning, the lighting (I know, I know, it should not be left to go out), they don't look very nice, bit old fashioned looking"

I have to say, I would love one, even though we do not have a back boiler. We do not even have a hot water tank!

Do you have any idea why we have a cat? Part of the answer is above. I will keep you guessing for a bit.

Buying a woodland is certainly a good idea, especially if you have a wood burning stove.

I may not be the right person to discuss the 'worst case scenario' because I m not too sure........

I am sure though, that although gas and electricity prices are coming down in the short term, in the long term, as M People would say, The Only Way Is Up.

Now, about our cat........

Cheers

ok, the cat bit has got me interested! do you have it cos it 'looks nice'?

I LOVE the look of the fire in a wood burner, could watch the flames all night. will have to. no tv!

Tracy

Hi Tracey

Well well well.....is it the way all women think?

You are correct!

The cat looks good, in the winter months, lay flat out in front of the fire.
(Actually, to be fair to my wife....he does look good)

He was a stray who decided to move in with us and indeed our next door neighbour.
We share him....hmmmmm.....no got that wrong.....he shares us!

He lives with both of us.
When we go on holiday he lives next door, and when my neighbours are on holiday, he lives with us.
We share the vets bills as well!

So, no matter what my wife may say, I do have a heart after all

Cheers

Tracy Pepler wrote: I LOVE the look of the fire in a wood burner, could watch the flames all night. will have to. no tv!

It's actually a theory of mine that TV is a substitute for a fire.

I reckon there is a part of the human brain which has evolved throughout the ages to attend to the fire. Fires are alive, they need constant attention, they need to be tended. In the past, our lives have depended on the fire in the night.

I think there is a part of our brain which is constantly active, constantly 'checking the fire'. But because there is no fire any more, we need the TV to replace it, to keep that part of our brain occupied, to stop us going round the twist!

Just a theory . . .

poisondwarf wrote: I have been on Andy Hunt's website a good many times and each time I have a look I think to myself
"Bloody hell! I m jealous, I wish I could attain even a fraction of what he has done"
His set up really is something else.

There is a lot of rough with the smooth. Like tepid shower water on cloudy days. Like the bloody hard work of collecting and chopping logs to try to fill the store before the end of May, so they can dry over the summer. Like trying to keep the fire in when the logs have got damp, and it's freezing cold. Like waking up in a cold house because you've had to turn the fire in before going to bed! Like taking a delivery of 30 heavy sacks of logs on a Saturday morning every 3 weeks!

Like manually switching the ring main between batteries and the mains, and having to re-set all the clocks.

Like my other half having to use the hairdryer in the kitchen, because the inverter can't handle the power if she uses it in the bedroom!

But it's well worth it . . . free hot water in the summer, free carbon-neutral heat and hot water in the winter. Free electricity in the summer and 3 days' worth of electricity during a power cut.

It's worth it just to be able to tell the door-to-door energy company salesmen that you don't use gas, and see the 'does not compute' look on their faces!