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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

An Inspector Calls wrote: The slate floors are cold to the touch, but that does not upset the thermal; comfort of the rooms. And my house doesn't cost an arm and a leg to heat.

In summary, more of the usual level of argument by exaggeration.

One of these days lagger will read and think - perhaps not at the same time though!
You do not understand the science of thermal comfort, inspector. If there is a cold surface in a room the body's radiation will not be returned by that surface and a higher room temperature will be required to make up for it especially if such a large surface as the floor of a room is involved.

Your house doesn't cost an arm and a leg to heat at the moment because you spent a fortune on an inappropriate method of heating, a heat pump, instead of insulating your house properly. When the cost of electricity goes up in future years you will see the error of your ways. Insulation has no running costs so, although it might have been more expensive initially, in the medium to long term it will be much, much cheaper, as my clients have discovered over the last 35 years.

And who's finishing off with an ad hominem attack now?
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
An Inspector Calls

Post by An Inspector Calls »

The current efficiency of 27 year old Drax is 38 %. Well north of 33 %.

That's an isolated example, which of course you'd select and thus, to your thinking, prove your point.

The CCGTs, which are the doiminant UK fossil fuel source, are over 50 %.
Most combined cycle units, especially the larger units, have peak, steady state efficiencies of 55 - 59%. Research aimed at 1370°C (2500°F) turbine inlet temperature has led to even more efficient combined cycles and 60 percent efficiency has been reached for at least one combined cycle unit, (e.g. the combined cycle unit of Baglan Bay
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_cycle
http://www.power-technology.com/projects/baglan/


As to the concluding ad hominem - feel free. I'm quite happy to oblige into the future especially in reply to others. How else are we to maintain the standards of this forum?
An Inspector Calls

Post by An Inspector Calls »

kenneal - lagger wrote:Insulation has no running costs so, although it might have been more expensive initially, in the medium to long term it will be much, much cheaper, as my clients have discovered over the last 35 years.
What utter bollocks. You fondly think insulation will last forever? Perhaps people should check out their 200 mm of loft mineral wool they installed 25 years ago and see if they think it looks as good an insulator now than as previously.
kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

An Inspector Calls wrote:The current efficiency of 27 year old Drax is 38 %. Well north of 33 %.
To paraphrase one of your earlier posts "One of these days inspector will read and think - perhaps not at the same time though!" I quoted the Drax website and Siemens, who are installing the improvements to Drax, and I would think that they know what their efficiency is. They said that the efficiency would increase by 5% to just short of 40%. Are you calling them liars or does Wikipedia know better than the power station owner what its efficiency is?
That's an isolated example, which of course you'd select and thus, to your thinking, prove your point.
Quoting Siemens "reinforcing its position as the most efficient coal-fired power station in the UK." So all the coal fired must be below 40% unless they are lying about this as well.
The CCGTs, which are the doiminant UK fossil fuel source, are over 50 %.
Most combined cycle units, especially the larger units, have peak, steady state efficiencies of 55 - 59%. Research aimed at 1370°C (2500°F) turbine inlet temperature has led to even more efficient combined cycles and 60 percent efficiency has been reached for at least one combined cycle unit, (e.g. the combined cycle unit of Baglan Bay
from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_cycle
http://www.power-technology.com/projects/baglan/
Note "have peak, steady state efficiencies of 55 - 59%". So what are the average efficiencies when a variable load is taken into account. I thought that the CCGTs are used for the variable load. They still waste almost half the fuel that they use and are sited in out of the way places so that wste heat cannot be readily used.

We should be installing smaller local power stations that can be used as Combined Heat and Power units, such as Slough Heat and Power, so that efficiencies can be boosted over the 90% mark. This would also help with reducing grid losses as well.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
kenneal - lagger
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Posts: 14290
Joined: 20 Sep 2006, 02:35
Location: Newbury, Berkshire
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

An Inspector Calls wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:Insulation has no running costs so, although it might have been more expensive initially, in the medium to long term it will be much, much cheaper, as my clients have discovered over the last 35 years.
What utter bollocks. You fondly think insulation will last forever? Perhaps people should check out their 200 mm of loft mineral wool they installed 25 years ago and see if they think it looks as good an insulator now than as previously.
If you installed a quality insulation product of high density rather than cheap and nasty low density fibreglass you will find that your insulation will last a very long time, at least 25 years. If it compacts a little it will be a damn site cheaper to top it up than it will be to completely replace a heat pump. I can't see direct replacements or spares being available in 10 years time let alone 25 years.

Clients who installed exterior insulation 30 years ago find that it is still working perfectly well although they wish that they had installed more than the "economic thickness" of the time. That economic thickness has increased substantially since then.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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