PowerSwitch

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2011/07 ... es-how.php

'It's official; Toronto is tearing up its one year old Jarvis Street bike lanes and adding back a fifth driving lane. One Councillor said it's because a constituent complained I have 4 kids and I can't get home to them for dinner." Another said "more roads make cars go faster" which is just what cyclists need on Jarvis when there are no bike lanes.


During the debate about removing two suburban bike lanes, Councillor Michelle Berardinetti said "bike lanes are not a good fit for suburbs because we are forced to use our cars here" and "I never want to see bike lanes in Scarborough ever again"'.

Jon

I wish they'd get rid of most bike lanes out my way.

All they did was slap some paint on the road and every time a junction comes along it disappears. Utterly pointless.

I would be far better and safer to just let cyclists and pedestrians officially share the footpaths. Obviously that might not work in some cities but at least it'd get cyclists out of bus lanes and away from drain covers.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:I wish they'd get rid of most bike lanes out my way.

All they did was slap some paint on the road and every time a junction comes along it disappears. Utterly pointless.

I would be far better and safer to just let cyclists and pedestrians officially share the footpaths. Obviously that might not work in some cities but at least it'd get cyclists out of bus lanes and away from drain covers.

There are shared footpaths/bike lanes in Cambridge. Most cyclists never use them, preferring to share the road with cars to make a point. And it can't be just because these cycle lanes are crap; many are perfectly serviceable in my experience.

Ludwig wrote: preferring to share the road with cars to make a point..

Presumably the point they are trying to make is that a long stream of cars, lorries, vans and buses behind a cyclist is using a lot more fuel than if the cyclist wasn't there?

I particularly like the extremely bolshi recreational cyclists who insist on riding in packs, blocking the road for miles because they pay road tax too......errrm,hang on, ah, because they also have to have licences......damn, no, wait......because they are also lumbered with insurance, no, that wasn't it....ah, yes, because they don't have number plates and so can get away with breaking the law.

I much prefer cycling away from traffic.

I don't buy the idea of cyclists using the road "to make a point". If I do less than 8mph, I feel inclined to use a path. If I do more, I use the road, whether there's a bike lane or not. I feel that going fast on a path puts pedestrians at risk, and having to stop whenever it peters out at a junction or side road is a PITA.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:

Ludwig wrote: preferring to share the road with cars to make a point..

Presumably the point they are trying to make is that a long stream of cars, lorries, vans and buses behind a cyclist is using a lot more fuel than if the cyclist wasn't there?

I particularly like the extremely bolshi recreational cyclists who insist on riding in packs, blocking the road for miles because they pay road tax too......errrm,hang on, ah, because they also have to have licences......damn, no, wait......because they are also lumbered with insurance, no, that wasn't it....ah, yes, because they don't have number plates and so can get away with breaking the law.

I much prefer cycling away from traffic.

Motorists are lumbered with insurance because they can’t drive without killing and injuring people. Road tax was abolished in 1930. There are no recreational motorists?
Since when did number plates, stop motor vehicle users, breaking the law?

Ludwig wrote: Most cyclists never use them, preferring to share the road with cars to make a point. And it can't be just because these cycle lanes are crap; many are perfectly serviceable in my experience.

When cycling abroad on well-designed bike lanes, that have priority over motor vehicles at junctions, I never make a point.

Nice new avatar Ludwig.
I think it would look better with a dog, a sort of posh southern version of my, It’s Grim up North.

the mad cyclist wrote:Motorists are lumbered with insurance because they can’t drive without killing and injuring people.

I seem to have managed it for long enough. Cyclists also cause accidents besides being on the receiving end. You're just so much more vulnerable on a bike.

the mad cyclist wrote:Road tax was abolished in 1930.

Oh, semantics, so useful. What does it matter if it's called Road Tax or Vehicle Excise Duty, or Road Fund? Cyclists still don't pay it but (most) cars do.

the mad cyclist wrote:There are no recreational motorists?

Who said that? I was just differentiating between commuting cyclists who tend to cycle alone and recreational cyclists that travel in packs.

the mad cyclist wrote:Since when did number plates, stop motor vehicle users, breaking the law?

Criminals have been using false plates since at least 1937. Your point?

However I'm glad you agree that cycles should be properly registered, taxed, tested and insured. I'm sure you'll also support proper training and licensing for cyclists.

It's not 'them and us' or 'you and me'. I cycle, walk and drive. When driving I prefer cyclists to be part of the traffic flow where roads allow or on pavements/proper cycle lanes when they do not. I don't change my mind when I'm cycling either. I much prefer it if everyone just manages to get along nicely, acknowledging that each has a need and doing their best not to get in the way.

I hate cycling in the narrow streets in Cambridge. So many cars keep getting in my way...

the mad cyclist wrote:Motorists are lumbered with insurance because they can’t drive without killing and injuring people

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:I seem to have managed it for long enough. Cyclists also cause accidents besides being on the receiving end. You're just so much more vulnerable on a bike.

So, it’s still why motorists need insurance.

Yes cyclists have accidents, although deaths caused by cyclists are extremely rare, but as you say they are mostly on the receiving end (of motorists). Cyclists who are members of cycling clubs, often have third party insurance included in their membership, others including me, arrange their own.

the mad cyclist wrote:Road tax was abolished in 1930.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:Oh, semantics, so useful. What does it matter if it's called Road Tax or Vehicle Excise Duty, or Road Fund? Cyclists still don't pay it but (most) cars do.

Semantics probably, but do you believe that the more someone spends on transport, the more priority they deserve?

the mad cyclist wrote:There are no recreational motorists?

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:Who said that? I was just differentiating between commuting cyclists who tend to cycle alone and recreational cyclists that travel in packs.

That’s just my rant. Motorists always give me the impression that their journey is more important than a cyclist.

the mad cyclist wrote:Since when did number plates, stop motor vehicle users, breaking the law?

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:Criminals have been using false plates since at least 1937. Your point?

Most motorists break the law in some way. The vast majority of car, van and especially motorcyclists disregard the Highway Code with regard to speeding.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:However I'm glad you agree that cycles should be properly registered, taxed, tested and insured. I'm sure you'll also support proper training and licensing for cyclists.

Did I? Besides putting many people off cycling, it would be a total waste of time and money.

the mad cyclist wrote: Nice new avatar Ludwig.
I think it would look better with a dog, a sort of posh southern version of my, It’s Grim up North.

I'm actually a Bradfordian by birth, stranded in the poncy South for 15 years now.

The man is not a southerner but Special Agent Cooper from "Twin Peaks", lover of black coffee and cherry pie and all-round good guy.

Some cyclists do carry insurance. A cyclist I used to work with told this, and he also said it was common practice for those cyclists with insurance not to admit it if they were involved in an accident. If I had a pound for every cyclist who ignored traffic lights I would be able to retire very wealthy. I don't think some cyclists promote cucling very well, and it is not surprising some motorists get fed up of them.
A very different story in France, where the usually selfish French drivers actually respect cyclists and give them plenty of space(normally). T think it is something in the psychology that most French drivers either do cycle themselves or think they are successful participents in the Tour de France.
Many of the cycle lanes in UK, are either sharing of bus lanes, or a token jesture, paid for by all tax payers.
When I visited Cambridge a couple of years ago, I was shocked by the number of cars in the city centre, expecting it to be mainly cyclists. In fact i deliberately used the park and ride as I did not think i would be able to part in city centre. the next time I visited I parked in the city centre.

Bicycles came before motor cars. Traffic lights were introduced to control cars. Why should cyclists get caught up in this inappropriate technology and legislation?

I think the English loathing of cyclists is ingrained in our subconscious. It originates from when our grandparents used to ride their bicycles out of the factory gate, while the boss would look down his nose as he drove past in his rusty Ford Pop. They’re scared that any admiration or tolerance towards cyclists may send them back to a subservient past.

the mad cyclist wrote:I think the English loathing of cyclists is ingrained in our subconscious. It originates from when our grandparents used to ride their bicycles out of the factory gate, while the boss would look down his nose as he drove past in his rusty Ford Pop. They’re scared that any admiration or tolerance towards cyclists may send them back to a subservient past.

As usual (and I'm as guilty of this as anyone) we notice rudeness, whereas tolerance and politeness pass below our radar.

I was speaking to a Spaniard the other week, who commented on how much more respectfully cyclists are treated in Britain than in Spain.